Schofield “Multi-ball” cartridge

[BMur]

During the Military pistol trials of the late 1870’s a new cartridge design was fabricated by the Frankford Arsenal initially for the Colt and Springfield rifle titled the “Multi-Ball” cartridge. See photo 1

I’m abbreviating the records but the results were well excepted by the Cavalry. This new design was heavily tested at various ranges and clearly recorded. Example: At 25 yards 10 rounds equaling 30 bullets fired from the Colt pistol patterned inside a 12” circle. The recoil increased from 21 lbs to 34 Lbs.
Imagine shooting at a moving target from horseback with a pistol that now discharged 3 bullets with every shot fired!

The round was modified to chamber yet again in both the Colt and Schofield revolvers and initial production was 9000 rounds from the Frankford Arsenal in 1879. In 1880 only 300 rounds were issued and after 1880 the records are silent. It is believed that this was only a test round that was never adapted.

I totally disagree. Each post was issued reloading kits and tools that included a 45 cal Gang ball mold for both the 45 pistol and 45/70 Springfield rifle that is also assumed to be for gallery loading. That is ridiculous if you think about it.

Again, the Cavalry liked the round and are documented as complaining to the Frankford Arsenal for not producing more. My research proves that hand loading became the norm in the 1880-1882 time frame. That clearly included round ball loads.

Doesn’t take rocket science to see the clear benefit of an 18 shooter Schofield revolver from horseback against a moving target at basically any distance up to a realistic 75 yards.

Fast forward to 4am this morning. See photos
This is an Ideal 45 Schofield gang mold Special order for that exact same 3 ball cartridge. Unfortunately, someone wanted it more than I did. This should be a wake up call for historians and Schofield collectors. It was in fact an 18 shooter quite often during the Indian Wars.

Murph

 

[Speedo2]

".....Example: At 25 yards 10 rounds equaling 30 bullets fired from the Colt pistol patterned inside a 12” circle. "

Wow! Where can I get some of those rounds?

But in my case, I know that it aint' the arrow, it's the Indian.

 

[lestert357]

Murph, was the same amount of powder used for the multi-ball cartridge as in the traditional one ball load?

 

[Patbar]

Most interesting, Murph ! I had never heard of this cartridge.

 

[lowriderfxr]

Grandfather of the Governor.

 

[mmaher94087]

Capt. Wright's design is ridiculous. One would need molds for two different projectiles. One flat on one side and the other with two flats. I imagine seating three projectiles with the flats aligning in the proper position would be problematic. Then there is the time involved picking the proper projectile in the proper order. I can understand three identical round projectiles.

 

[BMur]

Powder load

Murph, was the same amount of powder used for the multi-ball cartridge as in the traditional one ball load?

Hey Terry,
The records begin with a completely modified Colt 45 SAA that the Army decided to elongate the frame and cylinder so they could stuff this longer case into without modifying the lead balls or reducing the powder charge. It must have been very powerful.

They gradually changed the design so it would chamber in the Schofield revolver also. Listed as 23 grains not specific regarding FFG? So this being the final powder load and approximately 650fps at 25 yards performance. This performance is specific to the Colt and Schofield revolvers. Other test guns in 44 cal are applicable as well like the Merwin & Hulbert, Forehand & Wadsworth and Remington all 44’s. They never got past the test stage since they were not adopted by the Military.

Then ordnance dept chimes in with the lack of pine board penetration being only 2”. They initially liked the round but started trashing it with extreme testing.
2” of pine board penetration is significant and would definitely inflict a casualty. That includes a horse if struck by one of these wicked rounds. The Cavalry was very happy with the performance in battle.

When you separate the different Army reports you can clearly see the significance of the performance in battle.
A Cavalry officer documented the performance of the round as optimum when used at a distance of 75 yards against a line charge. Which to me belittles the pine board performance Report.

It was definitely used in the 1880’s and into the 1890’s and in battle. Once the 30cal bolt action bottleneck round was introduced this concept became quickly obsolete For the rifle anyway.

Murph

 

[BMur]

45/70 Springfield Rifle

Here is the early drawing for the 45/70 Springfield rifle. You can see the obvious advantage using this round with a single shot rifle. I don’t know why the drawing refers to buckshot as the balls are full caliber .458. I’m seeing a very effective design at reasonable distances.

The “modified” revolvers refers to the initial pistol cartridge I mentioned in the heavily modified Colt 45 SAA.

Murph

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


For those that would like to know the source of Mr. Murph's
information are directed to: The Peacemaker and its Rivals
by John E. Parsons; Chapter 6 pgs. 56-63.

I'm sure Murph will next post info on the Merwin and Hulbert
multiball cartridge.

See, it isn't hard to document one's research.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[BMur]

Book reference

See what happens when you open a book that I recommended you read? Wasn’t hard to find was it?
Perhaps you even learned a little more?

Research is about compiling information not singular reference. Compiling reloading research, military records, Chief of ordnance reports, ( reading them!) Ideal molds that show up like the one on this thread, etc etc etc. put those references together and establish what actually took place at a specific time in history.
Some conclusions are not singular, in fact most are not. Singular references don’t cut it.

Murph

 

[dwh]

I believe the multi ball round are mentioned in Paul Mattew book 40 years with the 45-70 or Mr. Wolfes book on loading for the trapdoor. My own experience with the multi ball load’s mirror what was stated above. I’ve also created a shot load with a 1/2oz of 8 shot and a Buck & ball load. It’s interesting to duplicate some of the early ammunition examples.

 

[Boulder350]

For what its worth. A surviving box and loaded round in 44 Russian

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

See what happens when you open a book that I recommended you read? Wasn’t hard to find was it?
Perhaps you even learned a little moreMurph

I've owned that Parsons book for many years (about 10 to 15
years). That was when I was studying the Colt Single Action
Army. What I don't like is your unwillingness to substantiate
your claims and showing you how easy it is to list a reference.


Again, you like to be condescending. Are you really that insecure?
I would have much more respect for you if you would treat others
like equals. Most of us like to learn new things and pass on
information and help our fellows. Myself included. But when
you belittle others that question your research and ask for more
clarification and more information, you tend to be dismissive.
That 's not a good mentoring philosophy. None of us are going
to be here forever and if we wish our labors to persist, we need
to be able to provide the map to the treasure trove of information
to help those who come after us.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a Peter's 45-70 box from the far past (that means I don't know). It says it has 4 buckshot in it (I assume pre 1918) The top most ball is 45 caliber. This ammo was listed as a Fowler's load (geese, ducks, & swans) There were only 3 live rounds when I acquired the box, these have gone missing in my last move.

I have "Multi-Ball" brand ammo from the 1980's for 357mag (3 projectiles) and 38 special (2 projectiles) In this ammo there is a copper jacket on the top projectile and the information on the box indicates jacketing on the WAD CUTTER shaped projectile (s). When reloading articles were printed I remember reading a polyethylene card (milk jug disc) was placed between the projectiles so there would be some spread in the pattern, otherwise all the projectiles flew "en-train" (right behind one another).

Remington also loaded "Buckshot" loads for 38/357 in the 1990s using plain lead round balls. They both had two 70 grain 000 buckshot. Product numbers R38SMB & R357MB (I tried looking up the bar-codes without success.)

While I fired several of each pistol ammo, I never had groups smaller than a 12 circle beyond 5 yards! I think that figure is for the 45-70 load. This old idea is still floating around.

Ivan

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I have a Peter's 45-70 box from the far past (that means I don't know). It says it has 4 buckshot in it (I assume pre 1918) The top most ball is 45 caliber. This ammo was listed as a Fowler's load (geese, ducks, & swans) There were only 3 live rounds when I acquired the box, these have gone missing in my last move.

I have "Multi-Ball" brand ammo from the 1980's for 357mag (3 projectiles) and 38 special (2 projectiles) In this ammo there is a copper jacket on the top projectile and the information on the box indicates jacketing on the WAD CUTTER shaped projectile (s). When reloading articles were printed I remember reading a polyethylene card (milk jug disc) was placed between the projectiles so there would be some spread in the pattern, otherwise all the projectiles flew "en-train" (right behind one another).

Remington also loaded "Buckshot" loads for 38/357 in the 1990s using plain lead round balls. They both had two 70 grain 000 buckshot. Product numbers R38SMB & R357MB (I tried looking up the bar-codes without success.)

While I fired several of each pistol ammo, I never had groups smaller than a 12 circle beyond 5 yards! I think that figure is for the 45-70 load. This old idea is still floating around.

Ivan

Did you shoot any of these rounds? Did they cause excessive
leading of the barrel?

Cheers!
Webb

 

[tennexplorer]

"The military? Hey, let’s leave it out for 69 days and see what happens? When you blow a boiler they figure they learned something. Don’t mind the medical evacuations as anything but an Acceptable non-issue compared to the success of maxing out the equipment and personnel."

Hmmm, sounds like a Garcia class.

 

[SweetMK]

When is someone gonna work-up a load like this for my 629??

Seriously,, when I use Unique, there is a little extra space in the cartridge,,

I know we have some creative guys around here,,,

 

[BMur]

Knox

"The military? Hey, let’s leave it out for 69 days and see what happens? When you blow a boiler they figure they learned something. Don’t mind the medical evacuations as anything but an Acceptable non-issue compared to the success of maxing out the equipment and personnel."

Hmmm, sounds like a Garcia class.

You got me shipmate. I deleted my post. Thought I went too far but you are spot on. The Garcia class wasn’t bad enough so they decided to make it worse with the Knox Class.

Murph

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Did you shoot any of these rounds? Did they cause excessive
leading of the barrel?

Never had leading from the limited number I shot.

Ivan

 

[Jaco1234]

Hatcher discusses loading 45 long colt with shot in his" Enclopedia of revolvers and pistols".