Electric Vehicle Stupidity - Update Post 288

[cmj8591]

I guess it depends on who's spewing the nonsense, those that see a future for EVs and Hydrogen powered cars, or those that think the Earth has an unlimited supply of Fossil Fuels…


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Hydrogen and the EV's that are using plug in recharging are two different things. Especially when you consider hydrogen combustion engines. When you talk about unlimited fuel supplies, hydrogen is about the only thing that comes close, at least on this planet. That includes lithium. Unless someone can rewrite the laws of physics and comes up with a power source that doesn't consume anything, your EV's are just as dependent on a finite source of fuel as oil driven machines. And we won't even get into the source of power to charge the battery. The problem that we have with EV's now is that a segment of government/business has figured out how to harvest money from the concept. The media has helped to perpetuate the hype, take advantage of a low information population and put forward a narrative that a technology that is not adequate to meet the need is the answer. People buy into it, because, hey, who doesn't want to save the planet and here we are. In the mean time, politicians get richer, business get richer, tax payers get screwed and the problem never really gets fixed.

 

[biku324]

Recent history suggests that we can already be far less dependent on OPEC than we are. Aside from that, even if you could put a charging station in every house, there's no way that there will be enough electricity generated to power them all in the next twenty years. The irrational opposition to building more nuclear power plants and the war on coal will prevent it.

With what exists now, electric can work for most folks in most places. The EV owners I know are happy.

 

[yaktamer]

And long cue lines at gas stations mean what exactly! The nearest Buc-ee's near me is more than 70-miles away…


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The last time I had to wait in a long gas line, Jimmy Carter was still president. I doubt there's a Buc-ee's within 1000 miles of me, but somehow I refuel quickly and easily.

 

[Muss Muggins]

A 220 connection will charge these overnight.

In 15 to 20 years, we will no longer care about OPEC. Or anyone's Middle Eastern wars.

Well, unless we want plastic for the interiors. Or tires . . .

 

[mtgianni]

One of the big factors with auto's has been a resale value or 60% or so after 42 months. Who will want a car with a worn out battery at 5 years of age? What will happen when the trade in is 20% or the dealer agrees to take it and not charge you the Haz Mat fees?

 

[biku324]

Again, the folks I know who have EVs like them. Experience trumps speculation for me.

 

[venomballistics]

Approximately 750,000 were sold in 2022, and ~257,700 so far sold in 2023 in the US alone, so somebody's out there seems to be interested in buying EVs…


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....and the radical reduction in sales from the 2022 to 2023 model years is a strong indicator that most are growing wise to the shortcomings of this technology. Bud light was howling over a 20% drop in sales ... you just showed us a drop of over 60%

 

[venomballistics]

Again, the folks I know who have EVs like them. Experience trumps speculation for me.

... and those folks that have spent stupid money on sets of vac tubes for guitar amps claim the sonic differences to be "night and day", yet they are never able to actually demonstrate it.
While an argument for dynamics might be real, the claims of sonic shift are often little more than someone sandbagging the truth to guard their egos.
I'll take my electronics experience and laws of physics over human manipulation

 

[Rustyt1953]

... and those folks that have spent stupid money on sets of vac tubes for guitar amps claim the sonic differences to be "night and day", yet they are never able to actually demonstrate it.

Solid gold truth!

 

[Secundius]

....and the radical reduction in sales from the 2022 to 2023 model years is a strong indicator that most are growing wise to the shortcomings of this technology. Bud light was howling over a 20% drop in sales ... you just showed us a drop of over 60%

It's June 2023, with half a year to go…


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[venomballistics]

For those who like to rag on the Prius, the latest version is getting rave review. The larger gas engine doesn't seem to have affect economy to any significant degree and the performance and battery capacity have been drastically improved.

in other words, they are taking it a little more seriously.
It's not just about the state of the art. It's also about how much of that art they are willing to sell us.
The McLaren P1 will absolutely spank its face. But, because Toyota decided to make a tiny concession, give another morsel, while withholding the meal, they rave about it.
It's not great, it's just slightly less neutered compared to it's prior iteration. It's still not all the car it could, or even should be.

 

[ameridaddy]

With what exists now, electric can work for most folks in most places. The EV owners I know are happy.

Yeah, but what happens when there are ~200,000,000 EVs, which is where the TPTB want us to go pretty damned quick?
I think we have a big unanswered question here.
Can the expansion of grid capacity and coverage match the government demanded pace of EV usage?
Even if that happens, what do we do with 200,000,000 x 1,000lbs (that's 100 million tons for the math challenged) of dead lithium batteries at their life's end? I don't object to research and development of EVs, but I do resent the mandated rush with important issues regarding the full picture of their deployment not addressed.

 

[venomballistics]

It's June 2023, with half a year to go…


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so ... +30% drop projected ... AB Inbev hasn't suffered as much as this.

 

[venomballistics]

Yeah, but what happens when there are ~200,000,000 EVs, which is where the TPTB want us to go pretty damned quick?
I think we have a big unanswered question here.
Can the expansion of grid capacity and coverage match the government demanded pace of EV usage?
Even if that happens, what do we do with 200,000,000 x 1,000lbs (that's 100 million tons for the math challenged) of dead lithium batteries at their life's end? I don't object to research and development of EVs, but I do resent the mandated rush with important issues regarding the full picture of their deployment not addressed.

I can give you a few back burner technologies that promise to be parts of the solution, but there are not enough such things to completely deliver it.
a transition to methanol has a more complete road map.

 

[LVSteve]

Electric vehicles work well in the city, but for longer travel in very rural areas, not so much. Ely is 243 miles from Vegas, a journey involving hills and a desert where you probably want to run the A/C. Wanna risk a 300 mile EV getting there in one go? I wouldn't.

Therefore you are going to be stopping at either Crystal Springs or Caliente to make the trip. Neither of those appear to be fast chargers to me, but I could be wrong. I would also add that neither location is exactly overrun with nice places to eat or even hit the restroom. You may guess how I know. Repeat visit to charger on the ride back

For comparison, I could take either of my diesel vehicles there and back and never touch pump until I got back to Vegas. Horses for courses sound familiar?

 

[Secundius]

so ... +30% drop projected ... AB Inbev hasn't suffered as much as this.

But most new car sales usually takes place In September and October after 2024 cars become available…


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[venomballistics]

Electric vehicles work well in the city, but for longer travel in very rural areas, not so much. Ely is 243 miles from Vegas, a journey involving hills and a desert where you probably want to run the A/C. Wanna risk a 300 mile EV getting there in one go? I wouldn't.

Therefore you are going to be stopping at either Crystal Springs or Caliente to make the trip. Neither of those appear to be fast chargers to me, but I could be wrong. I would also add that neither location is exactly overrun with nice places to eat or even hit the restroom. You may guess how I know. Repeat visit to charger on the ride back

For comparison, I could take either of my diesel vehicles there and back and never touch pump until I got back to Vegas. Horses for courses sound familiar?

Very ... we have an EV at work to move truck trailers in and out of the docks when our OTR drivers are unavailable.
It works out well in this role as it sees less than an hour of service in any given day. It's not hard to keep its charge state ahead of demand.
We know, however, that it wouldn't have a prayer on an actual route.

 

[venomballistics]

But most new car sales usually takes place In September and October after 2024 cars become available…


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not holding my breath and neither should you if you expect me to buy one.
It will NOT happen until they come with solid state batteries and a practical means to charge them in less than 15 minutes comes to fruition. most, but not all of the tech is one the back burner being slow walked.
You can have battery fires, pack replacement, and charging access if you like though.

 

[Secundius]

not holding my breath and neither should you if you expect me to buy one.
It will NOT happen until they come with solid state batteries and a practical means to charge them in less than 15 minutes comes to fruition. most, but not all of the tech is one the back burner being slow walked.
You can have battery fires, pack replacement, and charging access if you like though.

In September 2022, Tesla is supplementing their Lithium-Ion equipped vehicles with Lithium-Iron Phosphate equipped vehicles…


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[venomballistics]

In September 2022, Tesla is supplementing their Lithium-Ion equipped vehicles with Lithium-Iron Phosphate equipped vehicles…


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Don't care ... hold out for either Lithium ceramic / glass or sodium ceramic / glass.Till they bring these to market, it's a poor investment.