I was hoping someone would say something like that,
Collectibles that I can only look at, or too precious to use, are not my favorite thing.
K-22 Pre-war & SCSW Description - Updated
- Thread starter PeteC
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Collectibles that I can only look at, or too precious to use, are not my favorite thing.I have a copy of the shipping records for the earliest 22/40's (K-22 2nd Model). The first 22/40 is 682420. It shipped---March 3, 1940. The second one, 682421, interestingly enough is blank-----likely would letter as "Open on the books"---translates to "We know we made it, but have no clue as to what happened to it." Also interesting/weird is some shipped to a Paul S(?) Linforth(?) in San Francisco----who is clearly someone who knew someone. He got 682424 & 682425, (along with a few others) shipped January 25, 1940---which looks like the earliest shipping date.
The last one I had is 682435, and is one of those once in a lifetime finds-------lettered as shipped "March 21, 1940, and delivered to Mr. Philip B. Sharpe"--------"on an advertising account at no charge to Mr. Sharpe." "This is a very important revolver." That's true enough, but I'd like to have stumbled upon one of the first ones they gave him---Registered Magnum #2. That would probably letter as a "very, very important revolver." Oh well!
Ralph Tremaine
Gary Garbrech had that one. I was a policeman at the time. He offered it to me but it was a little out of my price range.
I have 682930 and its March 13th ship date. Seems March was a big seller!
Interesting the 1940 catalog still had 1st models pictured then later the same year had the change to Masterpiece.
Here are two 1940 catalogs side by side,same page.
That's interesting----and rather strange! I had only one gun from the Garbrecht collection, after he died---on February 10, 2005---a .38 D.A. Fifth Model Target, and it didn't work--sent it off to Dave Chicoine, who said it had the wrong hammer in it, but not to worry---he had one. It was back home in less than two weeks---$75. Sometimes living right pays off.
The fellow I bought the Sharpe gun from (at a very attractive price in 2014) said he'd had it for 10 years--and never lettered it. When he learned of its provenance, he remarked, "I guess that'll teach me!"
The moral of that story is to letter every single gun you own---first thing---as soon as you get it home-------like I did.
Ralph Tremaine
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My 1941 catalog shows yet another change to the K-22 Masterpiece page. I have the price list as well for this year.
Pete, I am glad you made the connection that there were 3 different rear sights for the pre-WWII K-22s. Most simply think of two, one with and one without the micrometer sight. I believe that the single screw rear sight is somewhat scarce. Jinks book states that 19,500 1st models were made, with some stating that only 17,117 were made 1st Model production was accomplished over about 11 years. This means that likely only 1500 K-22s were made the first year and only a percentage of those were the early single screw models.
Pete, I am glad you made the connection that there were 3 different rear sights for the pre-WWII K-22s. Most simply think of two, one with and one without the micrometer sight. I believe that the single screw rear sight is somewhat scarce. Jinks book states that 19,500 1st models were made, with some stating that only 17,117 were made 1st Model production was accomplished over about 11 years. This means that likely only 1500 K-22s were made the first year and only a percentage of those were the early single screw models.
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As a slight thread drift, one must be careful when receiving information from gun dealers. Not all know everything about every firearm. In two examples at shops near me, the owner of the first shop passed and his wife and the staff were selling off the inventory. I stopped to see what S&W's they might have. The dealer while alive had a reputation for "playing around" with his inventory and adding or subtracting parts. One of the staff members told me that they had a nice K38 that had not been put out yet when I asked about S&W's. What he brought out happened to be a boxed Trophy gun from the 50's and was so inscribed. Since they had it priced as a K38 my wallet almost caught fire being removed from my jeans.
A second incident occurred at another local shop when I was searching their inventory looking for any .22/32's, which are my collecting interest. They had one listed however they listed the caliber as .32. I tried to explain that the .22/32 was by definition a .22 caliber revolver built on the larger .32 caliber frame and hence the name. He argued with me and said that the consignor had listed it that way and that it would be left that way.
So, all in all, one must be careful when getting details from sellers whether they are FFL's or just the public.
There are diamonds to be found out their that are merely listed as a piece of coal and vice versa.....
A second incident occurred at another local shop when I was searching their inventory looking for any .22/32's, which are my collecting interest. They had one listed however they listed the caliber as .32. I tried to explain that the .22/32 was by definition a .22 caliber revolver built on the larger .32 caliber frame and hence the name. He argued with me and said that the consignor had listed it that way and that it would be left that way.
So, all in all, one must be careful when getting details from sellers whether they are FFL's or just the public.
There are diamonds to be found out their that are merely listed as a piece of coal and vice versa.....
Agreed. I also think dealers can only spend a minimal amount of time looking up dates and features like sights, grips, etc. If they spent a day on each consignment gun, they would go out of business....
So, all in all, one must be careful when getting details from sellers whether they are FFL's or just the public.
There are diamonds to be found out their that are merely listed as a piece of coal and vice versa.....
I have not seen the gun or a price, but I now have much more information. I am wondering if the "first year" Model 1 version with the single screw sight is going to be priced at a premium and out of my range, but I guess we'll see.
I'm may order the S&W History Book by Roy Jinks published 1977, there are several of them on ebay.
I also found this page from a 1931 gun brochure reprint on ebay, notice how they describe the sights:
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Also of interesting note is an outside vendor using internal S&W descriptive terms and referring to the gun being equipped with "checked stocks" and not checkered grips as was common with most other gun makers.
If it's a K22/40 with the micro click sight the sight tang is smooth not grooved like the post war masterpiece micro sight. Also the right side frame will only be roll marked Made in USA, w/o the S&W address, and the serial # will not have a K prefix on the butt.
Those post war 3rd model K22 (2nd model masterpiece) will have all of those features.
The only other smooth tang micro sight is on the rare K38 target Mexican model from 1946.
Those post war 3rd model K22 (2nd model masterpiece) will have all of those features.
The only other smooth tang micro sight is on the rare K38 target Mexican model from 1946.
Every book written about pricing is obsolete the day it's published. For current market value go to Gunbroker on-line auctions and search for the gun under completed auctions. First of course you'll have to see the gun to identify exactly what it is.
But you could look up the couple of possible models it could be before you go to look at it.
Model46
Member
I have two 1st model K-22 outdoorsman revolvers, both later "two screw" models. I fire them both frequently and they are in my opinion one of the nicest shooting .22's ever. I also have a K22/40 which I have also fired but don't make a practice of it.
You mention you prefer a shooting gun over one you will not shoot. The two screw version would be the better choice. There is a reason they went to two screws as Ralph mentions.
Now it would be a hoot if it ended up being a Masterpiece as you get the looks of a prewar OD but the larger sights and short action of a post war gun, and they seem to be keeping there value well if you did decide to pay likely double what a similar condition OD brings.
I was hoping someone would say something like that,
These guns are made for shooting and that's just what there going to do.
Hope you get lucky like I did on this a week or two ago.
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I hope your lucky day did not include staring at a computer for hours, lol.What I thought of as a simple question, turned into a long thread, a lesson on sights, two of which I did not know existed and a day of reading. I figure both I and this poor old gun deserve a range day, lol. Sadly I may not see it until the shop decides to put it up (I already asked twice).
(nice grips btw)
thefresh2o
Member
Any update on this, PeteC. I'm waiting for the next episode to come out!
It is a story on its way to becoming a saga, and I am reluctant to go down another rabbit hole until I actually have the gun in my possession. At that time I will definitely post pics and info I have confidence in.
thefresh2o
Member
Well, gooood luck on the next steps. Looking forward to seeing what this mythical beast is.
That is forgetting one important thing, the gold bead front sight and single screw rear sight are uncommon and was only made for less than one year, while the 2 screw was made for 9 years.
I have a 1931 example and shoot it quite a bit, but never had to touch the rear sight screw and it still shoots where I originally sighted it in.
• August 13, 1930 - "Order to build the necessary tools and fixtures to make 500 K-22 Caliber Target revolvers per H. Wesson"
• January 1931 - "Order to furnish 'call' gold bead front sights as standard for all K-22 Target revolvers."
• September 16, 1931 - "Order to furnish stainless steel bead in Patridge sight instead of gold as standard for K-22 Target revolvers per H. Wesson"
• November 10, 1931 order to make all model rear target sights with elevating check screws per H Wesson.
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