K-22 Pre-war & SCSW Description - Updated

[PeteC]

I take it that there is no SN available at present. This has some pictures of a first model from a past sale. The second Model, K-22/40, has a micrometer rear sight. Scarce, Early Smith & Wesson K-22 Outdoorsman - 1st Model | Legacy Collectibles. Expand the picture to see a good view of the first model rear sight. First models are much more common than K-22/40s.

This turned out to be a very helpful link, Thank You. I compared with the pics from that sale, and to me at least it looks similar, albeit with a little more "life experience". Close s/n to the one in the link.

I really can't even guess at the correctness of the sights, but they look at least similar, with one elevation adjustment screw (no set screw), a tiny windage adjustment screw, a rear sight leaf fitted into the top strap, Patridge-type front blade. Whatever it is, definitely NOT the rare Second Model (not a Masterpiece), but one can hope a K-22 First Model with all correct parts. It may also need a new sear spring or something like that, because it does not work in double action, only single.

Taking good pics of both sides without reflections or shadows will require better light, but I am working on that. (The milky area around the rear sideplate screw is a ceiling reflection)

The serial numbers I can see all match (frame, barrel, cylinder), and the assembly numbers on the frame and yoke also.

 

[PeteC]

That is forgetting one important thing, the gold bead front sight and single screw rear sight are uncommon and was only made for less than one year, while the 2 screw was made for 9 years.

I have a 1931 example and shoot it quite a bit, but never had to touch the rear sight screw and it still shoots where I originally sighted it in.

• August 13, 1930 - "Order to build the necessary tools and fixtures to make 500 K-22 Caliber Target revolvers per H. Wesson"

• January 1931 - "Order to furnish 'call' gold bead front sights as standard for all K-22 Target revolvers."

• September 16, 1931 - "Order to furnish stainless steel bead in Patridge sight instead of gold as standard for K-22 Target revolvers per H. Wesson"

• November 10, 1931 order to make all model rear target sights with elevating check screws per H Wesson.

There is a flush silver-colored bead insert in the Patridge sight. Does not look like gold, so probably after the September 16 order. 2nd attachment in post above.

 

[PeteC]

Well, gooood luck on the next steps. Looking forward to seeing what this mythical beast is.

There was some misdirection, probably unintentional. However, the "beast" has been sighted and captured, on a cellphone camera, anyway, Stories aside, it's what is in my hands that matters. Please feel free to comment and/or nitpick, I am (obviously) not an expert on anything, especially not pre-WWII!

 

[PeteC]

Jinks book states that 19,500 1st models were made, with some stating that only 17,117 were made 1st Model production was accomplished over about 11 years. This means that likely only 1500 K-22s were made the first year and only a percentage of those were the early single screw models.
...

Interesting. So, if I read all of this correctly (a BIG if), and if the rear sight is original, then this would be an early K-22, but after the change from gold bead to stainless bead front sight. I honestly do not remember what exactly the story was about the sights, just that someone though it did not look correct for this K-22. The confusion is easy, because it went from one, to two, and back to one screw, and one might think the front leaf screw is being counted, etc. Thanks very much for the information.

edit:

Trying to get a clear pic of the rear sight, blade, and screws, without reflection, fingerprints, and lint is starting to get frustrating...

 

[paplinker]

Looks like that gun will be a lot of fun to shoot.
Its interesting about all the front sight options.
I own four ODs and have 1 of each type sight.The fourth one being a King red post and not exactly a standard sight.

Shooting outside I actually prefer the silver like yours.

The OD I shoot the most has a single rear screw with gold front disc. It has not ever given me a problem.

 

[Hondo44]

What took S&W so long to introduce a K frame .22?
Interesting history of the K22:

Along about the mid-teens a tool room prototype was fabricated and test fired; results were dismal. About the same time the British were clamoring for their British Service Revolvers, Smith was designing their 44 2nd Model and Uncle Sam wanted 1917s like right now! After the war business was all about feeding a hungry civilian appetite for firearms. Eventually someone 'found' the K22 toolroom gun at the beginning of the the 3rd decade of that century and thought why not? It was soon discovered the barrel bore wasn't to specs!! A proper barrel was produced and installed. And the rest is history.

 

[PeteC]

What took S&W so long to introduce a K frame .22?
Interesting history of the K22:

Along about the mid-teens a tool room prototype was fabricated and test fired; results were dismal. About the same time the British were clamoring for their British Service Revolvers, Smith was designing their 44 2nd Model ...

Perhaps the British Government should have ordered some of the latter instead,

 

[DARE]

Pete,
You have an early SN so my guess would be that your sight is correct. Not likely that your gun came with the 2 screw sight and someone replaced it with the 1 screw sight.
There was a delay from the time S&W ordered a change until it actually took effect.
Since your gun has the SS bead we know it was manufactured after September 1931.
The order for the 2 screw sight was made November 1931, but might have taken a while to show up on guns.
Add to that the fact the guns were not shipped in SN order.
A factory letter would give you a ship date, but don't think it would mention the rear sight. It would probably mention the front sight.

 

[Hondo44]

It may also need a new sear spring or something like that, because it does not work in double action, only single.
.

Congrats!

Some competition shooters were known to have their revolvers converted to single action only and in fact after WWII S&W offered a single action only option on a few K frame target models.

Your gun just may be an example. And depending on how it was done, likely simple to restore to double action. If someone just removed the hammer fly (double action sear) it would be simple to install/fit a replacement and get your double action back in business. Let us know what you find when you tear into it for a good cleaning.

 

[PeteC]

I have an earlier M&P target model with that sight style, the elevation screw is stuck tight and I had no luck with anything I tried to loosen. Fortunately it is stuck about where it should be at 20 yards so I am leaving it alone. If I broke that screw, I wouldn't know how to replace it, even if I could find another screw.

That seems to be the case here also. I can adjust the rear sight for windage easily, but elevation screw seems stuck. Side plate screws also, including the front screw. I may try a drop of Kroil on each screw and just let it sit. Since a previous owner either disabled double action (or something happened to the sear spring) I would at least like to know how and why.

 

[MHF]

"Since a previous owner either disabled double action"

I've seen some revolvers for sale with a note "single action only", so it could be a factory option? Would a letter have a comment on this?
Great forum!

 

[rct269]

The VERY first "K-22" revolvers were built around 1910---thereabouts. The best (only??) story about it is to be found in an article by Walter Roper, published (I think) in the May 1944 issue of the American Rifleman, titled "The Old And The New"---goes like this: A number of Army officers had persuaded S&W to build a small number of .22 caliber revolvers on the .38 caliber frame---20 of them---presumably for an Army shooting team. The guns were a total rolling disaster---"Flyers were frequent." The guns were returned, and destroyed---all but one. That one was given to Roper in 1920, when he went to work at S&W. He was told of the difficulties, and asked to have a look-see to find out the nature of the problem. He was also told S&W folks had already determined the problem was caused by the very long throat preceding the forcing cone. Needless to say, he dealt with that theory first---working with a single shot, and having its throat length increased in several steps along the way. The accuracy declined, but not to the degree experienced with the revolvers. This from the article: "That's the way the matter stood-----until one day, while cleaning the gun, I noticed the cleaning rod seemed to revolve too fast." He made some measurements, and found the rifling was one turn in ten inches---and was flabbergasted!! He knew, and knew pretty much everybody else knew that the proper rate was about one turn in sixteen inches--and noted when the REAL K-22 was built, it was rifled with one turn in fifteen inches---and it worked just fine!

As an aside, Roper's article shares a page with another, titled "Let's Eat A Chuck!" giving complete instructions on skinning and piecing, and finally cooking a Woodchuck---aka Groundhog. The article says it's good eating. I say I haven't tried it-----and not too inclined to do so---having been brought up eating other critters.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

As to single action only K-22's, I've never heard of such, but it could certainly be made in short order by simply removing the double action sear. The next question is why bother---less weight?

The SAO K-38 is a different matter altogether---the long story short version being its original name was The Short Action Single Action K-38.

Ralph Tremaine

And some simple measurements combined with some simple math will tell you it's 24% shorter---if memory serves---and it figures I'll hear about it if memory doesn't serve!

 

[PeteC]

"Since a previous owner either disabled double action"

I've seen some revolvers for sale with a note "single action only", so it could be a factory option? Would a letter have a comment on this?
Great forum!

I do not know. 1931~32, there may not be much except a ship date and name shipped to. Hondo44 seems to have a likely answer. When I was cleaning the gun, I found very faint round marks on the muzzle. Only visible at an angle, and mostly gone after the 2nd cleaning. Might have been a weight of some kind. AFAIK those were used by target shooters, not by people who bought one of these to shoot rabbits...

 

[PeteC]

As an aside, Roper's article shares a page with another, titled "Let's Eat A Chuck!" giving complete instructions on skinning and piecing, and finally cooking a Woodchuck---aka Groundhog. The article says it's good eating. I say I haven't tried it-----and not too inclined to do so---having been brought up eating other critters.

Ralph Tremaine

Burgoo, lol.

My father's friends once explained that the original "Roadkill Stew", a.k.a. Burgoo, was NOT made from roadkill, but from the kind of critters most likely seen run over on the road because they came out at night, and were paralyzed by headlights. Possum, rabbit, raccoon... and woodchuck. In other words small game animals, often shot with a .22 rifle or a handgun, not run over by a car (yuck). I had some as a kid. Served with biscuits and sour cream. NOT a fan. On the other hand, perhaps it will catch on when avocado toast falls out of favor.

 

[PeteC]

Congrats!

Some competition shooters were known to have their revolvers converted to single action only and in fact after WWII S&W offered a single action only option on a few K frame target models.

Your gun just may be an example. And depending on how it was done, likely simple to restore to double action. If someone just removed the hammer fly (double action sear) it would be simple to install/fit a replacement and get your double action back in business. Let us know what you find when you tear into it for a good cleaning.

This is how far I got today. Have not done any cleaning, but nothing looks terrible. The hammer and sear look different from what I am used to on post WWII guns!

I am editing this to remove the rest of this post to avoid any misdirection. I think the problem has been diagnosed now in the smithing sub-forum.

 

[PeteC]

Edit:

Closeup of sear with the old gun oil wiped off. The trigger does not engage the double action sear. The tip of the sear slides down the bevel at the end of the trigger, the trigger moves past the sear tip instead of pushing on it to cock the hammer. Most likely someone stoned or filed the parts thinking it would improve the trigger pull, and removed too much material...

The details are in this thread:

K-22 First Model Double Action Not Working