Underwood 38+P 158SWCHP for 38/44 HD

[Vtgw938]

Just shot some Underwood 158 grain hollow point semi-wadcutters I got to duplicate what my 38/44 HD would have been like with the old 38/44 loads. In addition, I needed something that wouldn't shoot low. The HD I'm sure was regulated for the hot 158 grain 38/44 load.

Point of impact was point of aim and recoil was more than manageable (with my two piece Guy Hogue's) with the loads. they also had a cast SWC load that was cheaper and with more velocity but thought this would be heavy enough for my 80+ year old gun, though I know it would handle it. Buffalo Bore had similar ammo with brass cases which looked more correct but the shipping was like $33 for two boxes of 20 rounds. Underwood only charged $11 or so for shipping of two boxes.

My LGS also just got in some Federal 158 SWCHP +P, which I guess is the old FBI load and they load it up occasionally according to a quick internet search. I plan to grab some of that as well, though it is not as hot as the Underwood.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That label doesn't say Federal. That looks like a remanufactured ammo. Neither Federal or Winchester or Remington even put gas checks on their FBI load. I have boxes of all 3 and have shot them for many years. I never saw one with a gas check.

Just be sure of what you are buying before you shoot it in your fine old revolver.

 

[Doug M.]

Looks to me as though that is the Underwood package.

 

[Vtgw938]

Box shown is the Underwood and it is quality ammo. Mentioned the Federal FBI load as I assume some members might want to look for it. Apparently they do a run of it every so often. Before my LGS got that in, I couldn't even get a sniff of a 158 grain SWC +P box of 38 Special any where around.

 

[stansdds]

I'd wager that Buffalo Bore and Underwood 38 Special +P is about as close to .38/44 ammo as you are going to get from a commercial loader.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Are Buffalo Bore and Underwood SAAMI compliant companies?
It's not required to sell ammo.

 

[ddixie884]

Our own Larry Gibson pressure tested the Underwood and buffalo bore 38 special 158 grain loads at 27,000 pounds per square inch. They both came in within a couple 100 psi of 27,000.

 

[chief38]

It's my opinion formed over the years, that the Buffalo Bore (20A) 158 grain LSWCHP-GC +P is about the best you will find out of 38 special. I have chronographed it many times and it does exactly what they state it will do - sometimes even a tad higher depending on the temperature and humidity.

IMHO Buffalo Bore ammo has been around a long time, has been time tested and has proven to be reliable, accurate and very very consistent, hence being my personal choice. In your gun posted above you should have no issues at all shooting them.

 

[Alk8944]

Are Buffalo Bore and Underwood SAAMI compliant companies?
It's not required to sell ammo.

Both claim that their ammunition is loaded to SAAMI pressure standards for +P, in the case of .38 Special this is 20,000PSI MAP. My recollection from the reports I read of the pressure tests done by Larry Gibson were more on the order of 29,000 PSI! Far above the SAAMI standard for .38 Special +P! Between the Buffalo Bore and Underwood loads he tested one was 27,000 and the other 29,000! I do not recall which was which.

 

[WR Moore]

Both membership and compliance with SAAMI standards is voluntary. Besides, SAAMI lists 3 different pressure limits for just about every cartridge. The level commercial ammunition is supposed to be loaded to is MAP or Maximum Average Pressure. I can't recall the alphabet soup for the two higher pressure limits. but MAP is 2 standard deviations lower than one of them. The "Here be dragons" level is significantly higher than MAP.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Both claim that their ammunition is loaded to SAAMI pressure standards for +P, in the case of .38 Special this is 20,000PSI MAP. My recollection from the reports I read of the pressure tests done by Larry Gibson were more on the order of 29,000 PSI! Far above the SAAMI standard for .38 Special +P! Between the Buffalo Bore and Underwood loads he tested one was 27,000 and the other 29,000! I do not recall which was which.

I always thought there was no way of achieving the velocity they get without being over pressure. No matter how you blend powders you can't get around physics. If the above is accurate that proves out my theory.

 

[Vtgw938]

Underwood says their ammo is within SAAMI specs with the exception of +P+ ammo and Buffalo says within specs with the exception of cartridges that have no SAAMI standards.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I KNOW what my J frame snub nose and 6" 686 revolvers will do with a full load of Unique, HS-6, Blue Dot and 2400 powders.

The Buffalo loads might be a true fps in the pistols, stated, but I also agree that
the low pressures that they list might be a little off?

I have to back off several powder for my J frame, due to fps data
and only move forward with maximum charges in my newer heavy frame, 686 revolver.

Most load data is used in a K frame or universal barrel, if you notice.
Stay safe.

 

[smithra_66]

Both claim that their ammunition is loaded to SAAMI pressure standards for +P, in the case of .38 Special this is 20,000PSI MAP. My recollection from the reports I read of the pressure tests done by Larry Gibson were more on the order of 29,000 PSI! Far above the SAAMI standard for .38 Special +P! Between the Buffalo Bore and Underwood loads he tested one was 27,000 and the other 29,000! I do not recall which was which.

This gun can handle 357 Magnum pressure levels, though. It is what Keith used to run the 173 gr. bullet over 13.5 grains of 2400, which is a 357 Mag in the Special case.

 

[Vtgw938]

I'm very comfortable with the Underwood ammo in my HD. I will only use it if I happen to lug it with me, just so it shoots point of aim.

I also picked up some of the 158 grain SWCHP "FBI Load" which I mentioned, which also will only be used if I lug a K frame 38 Special. I am curious to compare the FBI load, Underwood +P SWCHP and full-house 357 magnums out of a 4 inch M28-2 as far as felt recoil.

Results - notable difference between all three, but more so between the Underwood and the 357's (vintage 125 grain HP's)

 

[chief38]

Both claim that their ammunition is loaded to SAAMI pressure standards for +P, in the case of .38 Special this is 20,000PSI MAP. My recollection from the reports I read of the pressure tests done by Larry Gibson were more on the order of 29,000 PSI! Far above the SAAMI standard for .38 Special +P! Between the Buffalo Bore and Underwood loads he tested one was 27,000 and the other 29,000! I do not recall which was which.

Well, since I have no way to measure copper units of pressure, I can not argue one way or the other. I do know and will agree it's hot! That said, when I was using a M60-7 as an EDC, the 158 grain +P BB was my carry load of choice. I used to practice with the actual load a few times a year and fired a cylinder full for familiarity. The rest of my practice sessions were with standard type ammo. I've done no harm at all to my gun, it is as tight as it always was and I do believe that a small amount of Buffalo Bore will not harm a Chief's Special built in the last 45-50 years. I would not recommend a steady diet of any super hot load in a J frame. While the gun will probably never blow up, the stronger the load, the more wear that will occur. That certainly never stopped me from carrying said load for SD as I feel it's one of the best in a 2" CS Revolver. Actual chronograph results out of my 2" CS results were 1025 fps. Not only is that moving right along but remember, the BB 20A is 158 grains.

I look at life's decisions as a compromise. For something to work really well there are sometimes a few negatives we must accept. Shooting mild loads will of course extend the life of any gun, but a light load might not get the job done if and when it is called upon. A carry gun is a tool so save one's life in an extreme emergency. It can always be replaced where as a life can not.

 

[rockquarry]

Before the +P designation, few if anyone questioned hot .38 Special factory loads; there were plenty of them. If a revolver was marked .38 Special and an ammo box was marked the same, all was compatible.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

Guys - Just FYI, I loaded some 38/44 ammo using data from an old Lyman manual. Six grains of Unique under a 170-grain LSWC went 1070 fps from my 4" M28-2. That load will only be shot in my .357s. I loaded it for that 28-2 so I'd have something like back in the day.

 

[DWalt]

Some time back, I used my Quickload program to estimate the peak chamber pressure based on the normally given MV for the original .38-44 load (around 1100-1150 ft/sec) using a 158 grain lead bullet as did the original factory load (which used a metal capped bullet, not a FMJ). The peak pressure calculation under all my assumptions indicated that it had to be in the upper 20Kpsi neighborhood. The original 1930s factory .38-44 load probably used Hercules 2400. Apparently back in that time, no one was the slightest bit bothered by shooting high pressure .38-44 ammunition in whatever .38 Special revolver they happened to have. It was probably tough on the gun but was in no way dangerous to the shooter.

For anyone who handloads .38 Special, It is no trick at all to roll your own .38-44 ammunition. It will be vastly less expensive than the same ammunition from the boutique manufacturers like Buffalo Bore or Underwood.

 

[Bald1]

OP, if you keep an eye on Underwood website or get on their email list they offer free shipping several times a year as well as decent sale prices.