Vista Outdoors sells out....WOW

[DWalt]

Vista Outdoors was spun off from Alliant Techsystems (ATK) as a separate company in 2015. Among the entities under Vista were ammunition operations, CCI and Federal, Speer, and later, Remington. Now, CSG is buying the ammunition-related portions of Vista, plus a few which are not. Vista will continue to own and operate its other non-ammunition product lines independent of CSG. The only change in Federal, CCI, Speer, and Remington is ownership. What changes CSG may make in the future cannot be predicted, but the expectation is that the ammunition businesses will continue normally. And possibly under a different name, maybe like CSG-Federal, etc. It should be interesting. I expect to see ammunition prices increase.

 

[chief38]

All I can see is trouble ahead! Once a foreign entity owns almost all the major ammo company's in America, they can be manipulated, put out of business, deterred, or whatever to keep the products out of our hands. If they ever move production off shore, all that is needed is a foreign ammo ban and were screwed.

From what I understand, Winchester (about the only other major player in the ammo business not connected to Vista) who has the lions share of ammo contracts for the US Gov't and Military is being pressures and coerced into ceasing commercial ammo production and sales.

OK - no politics here, but I am sure most here are intelligent enough to connect the dots.

Take heed. Act accordingly. Buckle up.

 

[ladder13]

Dan Wesson and Colt are owned by CZ. Guns need ammo.

 

[Gamecock]

Damn. You can't tell the players without a program!

 

[malph]

All I can see is trouble ahead! Once a foreign entity owns almost all the major ammo company's in America, they can be manipulated, put out of business, deterred, or whatever to keep the products out of our hands. If they ever move production off shore, all that is needed is a foreign ammo ban and were screwed.

From what I understand, Winchester (about the only other major player in the ammo business not connected to Vista) who has the lions share of ammo contracts for the US Gov't and Military is being pressures and coerced into ceasing commercial ammo production and sales.

OK - no politics here, but I am sure most here are intelligent enough to connect the dots.

Take heed. Act accordingly. Buckle up.

It looks like the domestic producers of ammo can be leaned on and coerced too, especially if they want government contracts.

 

[LVSteve]

Dan Wesson and Colt are owned by CZ. Guns need ammo.

The CZ takeover didn't seem to do those concerns any harm. If it takes foreign ownership and management to run these businesses properly, that's on us.

From the American Rifleman piece:

"The previously announced plan to separate our businesses has positioned us to execute seamlessly on this transaction, which we believe is the best path to maximize value for our stockholders, while better positioning Sporting Products and Outdoor Products for future success."

Emphasis added by me, just to point out where to follow the money.

 

[Gamecock]

I think CZ brought much needed new capital to Colt.

At this point, I think it was very good for Colt.

 

[Igiveup]

Who and why is Winchester being coerced to stop comercial ammo? That would definately be a political move if it is the government.

 

[6string]

Vista Outdoors has been nothing but a wrecking ball to the domestic ammunition and reloading component market.
If they could've figured our how to outsource it to Chinese manufacturing, like they do with ALL their other product lines, we'd all be buying "Chin-Chan" primers or "Lucky Star" ammo.

I think they simply figured out that their days of scalping the American public aren't quite as lucrative as they had been.

Now, if we could only get it so these companies like CCI/Speer, Federal, Remington, etc went back to being competitors in the free capitalist marketplace maybe things might work in the favor of the consumer.

But the "big box" stores will have none of that!
Enjoy your Cabela's brand Fudge or Bass Pro Beef Jerky!

 

[DWalt]

Who and why is Winchester being coerced to stop comercial ammo? That would definately be a political move if it is the government.

I know no details. Lake City is a government-owned facility, and Winchester-Olin is only the contracted operator and manager of the facility. So unless there is some provision in the operating contract allowing Winchester to use Lake City's facilities to manufacture products for commercial sale (probably for a use fee), the government can do whatever it wants. I remember when Federal was Lake City's Army contractor, Lake City was shipping casings and bullets made there to Federal's plant in Anoka MN to assemble, pack, and ship loaded military ammunition there as part of Federal's operating contract. I remember seeing large cubitaners of 7.62 casings coming into Federal's plant.

 

[Echo40]

Alas, this is what has become of the American Industry. What hasn't outsourced production to foreign factories for cheap labor gets bought up by foreign conglomerates.

It's sad to think that a nation which once prided itself on being completely independent is now utterly dependent upon and indebted to foreign nations.

Oh well, it's not like anyone here isn't already stocked up on ammo, right?

 

[Gamecock]

Alas, this is what has become of the American Industry. What hasn't outsourced production to foreign factories for cheap labor gets bought up by foreign conglomerates.

Nope. The Left wants you to believe that trope.

Businesses leave because our fascist government has created an environment where it is difficult to operate.

A few years ago, I looked into who you would have to deal with if you wanted to make doxycycline, a common drug, in the U.S.

OSHA, EPA, EEOC, CPSC, USDA, BIS, BSEE, CSB, USCIS, DOC, OOC, ODEP, EBSA, ETA, SSA, FERC, FLRA, FMSHRC, FMCSA, FTC, FTA, FDA, FNS, FSIS, FE, GIPSA, ICE, BIS, DOI, IRS, DOL, BLS, MSHA, NIOSH, NIST, NLRB, NTSB, NRC, OSHRC, ODEP, OEM, OFE, OLHCHH, OMHP, ONE, OPM, OSTP, OSMRE, PTO, PBGC, PHMSA, PA, RRB, RITA, BSEE, OSTP, SIP, SEC, SBA, DOT, TSA, USAOC, USCSB, USCIS, DOE, CERT, WMD

Easier, cheaper to offshore it.

Some might think some of these agencies do good, but, regardless, the cumulative effect is companies say, "The heck with it. We'll go elsewhere."

What we need is the restoration of freedom, the elimination of 600 federal "alphabet" agencies that are not authorized by the Constitution.

The Constitution does not give the federal government authority over the ladder you use in your business. Yet the government believes they can regulate everything. Even the clothes on your back have government content. This is not the United States of the Founders.

More parochially, virtually none of the federal government's firearms regulations are Constitutional. The Constitution literally says they can't infringe.

They are no longer constrained by the Constitution.

 

[Racer X]

I know no details. Lake City is a government-owned facility, and Winchester-Olin is only the contracted operator and manager of the facility. So unless there is some provision in the operating contract allowing Winchester to use Lake City's facilities to manufacture products for commercial sale (probably for a use fee), the government can do whatever it wants. I remember when Federal was Lake City's Army contractor, Lake City was shipping casings and bullets made there to Federal's plant in Anoka MN to assemble, pack, and ship loaded military ammunition there as part of Federal's operating contract. I remember seeing large cubitaners of 7.62 casings coming into Federal's plant.

I believe part of the contract to run Lake City for Uncle Sam is that they can produce over runs, and sell the excess to the public. The actual contract likely makes very little profit. I worked for Olin, and later General Dynamics.

 

[DGNY]

Hope this post does not offend. I for one hope that regulators will take a close look at this proposed sale.

These products and their original companies now under the umbrella of Vista were at the ground level heart of American security and preparedness. My sense is that such is continuing truth, despite the advances in all manner of devices and projectiles.

As a backstop I suppose, in times of stress, US plants could be nationalized. But not a tidy solution there.

 

[Skeet 028]

I shot with a VP of Remington. The big box stores didn't control the industry...untill the makes stopped supporting their "dealer" programs. I know when Rem pretty much changed their marketing Heck
I knew at least 10 of the factory reps. Way back a Win Rep gave me a semi auto shotgun to shoot(ammo too) and give him an honest opinion of it. Win never made a really good semi auto shotgun. Shot the gun for about 45 days. Gave the gun and my opinion to the rep. Told 'em to make the gun. It was reliable...very reliable...but a harder shooter than an 1100 Rem. They never made or sold the gun...but the company that made 'em is in business today. It was the Benelli. I still have 2 Benelli's...and 1 Win M-50 Featherweight. The gun the Benelli perfected/ copied for all intents. Short recoil action. Rem cozied up to the big box stores and gave their dealer/distributor sales up in the 90s

 

[daveyc]

Nope. The Left wants you to believe that trope.

Businesses leave because our fascist government has created an environment where it is difficult to operate.

A few years ago, I looked into who you would have to deal with if you wanted to make doxycycline, a common drug, in the U.S.

OSHA, EPA, EEOC, CPSC, USDA, BIS, BSEE, CSB, USCIS, DOC, OOC, ODEP, EBSA, ETA, SSA, FERC, FLRA, FMSHRC, FMCSA, FTC, FTA, FDA, FNS, FSIS, FE, GIPSA, ICE, BIS, DOI, IRS, DOL, BLS, MSHA, NIOSH, NIST, NLRB, NTSB, NRC, OSHRC, ODEP, OEM, OFE, OLHCHH, OMHP, ONE, OPM, OSTP, OSMRE, PTO, PBGC, PHMSA, PA, RRB, RITA, BSEE, OSTP, SIP, SEC, SBA, DOT, TSA, USAOC, USCSB, USCIS, DOE, CERT, WMD

Easier, cheaper to offshore it.

Some might think some of these agencies do good, but, regardless, the cumulative effect is companies say, "The heck with it. We'll go elsewhere."

What we need is the restoration of freedom, the elimination of 600 federal "alphabet" agencies that are not authorized by the Constitution.

The Constitution does not give the federal government authority over the ladder you use in your business. Yet the government believes they can regulate everything. Even the clothes on your back have government content. This is not the United States of the Founders.

More parochially, virtually none of the federal government's firearms regulations are Constitutional. The Constitution literally says they can't infringe.

They are no longer constrained by the Constitution.

While I will agree that at this point we are over regulated, dont you agree some regulation is needed? An example:

Up here in Maine, The paper industry ran toxic sludge into our Rivers for decades before regulators required them to stop. Had the industry not been regulated, they would still be dumping toxins into the rivers at an alarming pace. because money. Now, because of all that dumping, every year more and more areas become off limits to hunting/fishing because they are finding PFAS (forever chemicals) in the soil, rendering any game living in that area to be inedible.

Similar can be said for innumerable other industries nationwide that have added to the PFAS problem. Think the tanning industry, Mining, Textiles, Metal production/coating, chemical industry. The list could go on.

 

[daveyc]

though many would protest, the world has changed and we are in a global economy. businesses will be bought and sold across national borders.

I love a good conspiracy theory, but I wouldnt be so sure this is one of them. I might be wrong, but I doubt a company would invest $2BB into ammo companies only to shutter them.

 

[smoothshooter]

I suspect the Vista primer manufacturing operations will remain business as usual under CSG. I believe that primer manufacturing business in Texarkana was a scam from beginning to end, while the construction of a new Fiocchi primer plant in Little Rock has been seriously delayed by an act of unbelievable stupidity that a third grader would not have made.

What happened with the primer plant in Little Rock?

 

[DWalt]

What happened with the primer plant in Little Rock?

I do not know the current status, but after the 260 acre construction site was purchased, it was discovered that much of it was too swampy to build on. I don't know if that problem has been resolved. The most recent article about the problem I found was published in an Arkansas business journal back in February, and at that time what they were going to do about it was unclear. Nothing has appeared since regarding the project's construction progress. Maybe someone living in the LR area reading this could provide more information.

 

[Gamecock]

While I will agree that at this point we are over regulated, dont you agree some regulation is needed? An example:

Up here in Maine, The paper industry ran toxic sludge into our Rivers for decades before regulators required them to stop. Had the industry not been regulated, they would still be dumping toxins into the rivers at an alarming pace.

Regulated by whom? Why didn't Maine regulate them?

I personally don't like the Feds coming in and telling my state what it has to do. Period. I don't care what their great cause is.

Some regulation? Sure, if it involves multiple states, or the Constitutional 'navigable waters.'

because money

Something wrong with money?

Now, because of all that dumping, every year more and more areas become off limits to hunting/fishing because they are finding PFAS (forever chemicals) in the soil, rendering any game living in that area to be inedible.

Perfect! This is why you don't want the Feds regulating you!

https://junkscience.com/2023/03/no-...in-the-environment-cause-any-harm-whatsoever/