Model 17-9 sights, not enough adjustment

[329]

Took the recently acquired 17 to the range last week and had some sight issues. I generally get used to a gun before I make adjustments if needed but this was clearly off up and to the right 5-6 inches at 18 yards. I the set up a sturdy bag rest at 18 yards and found I could get it somewhat close but I was out of elevation adjustment and nearly so on windage. Elevation can be taken care of with a new blade but I am trying to figure out what to do about the windage. I have never had to move any Smith revolver mre than a few clicks. Using cci standard velocity, Remington High Velocity and Federal match all produced similar results and all groups were less than an inch spread with some almost a single hole.
The gun locks up solid, no discernable endshake and the barrel is not canted at all.Timing seems good and no gaps where the barrel and frame meet. The trigger is one of the best out of the box I have encountered.

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[paladin42]

You need to rotate the barrel

It has been my experience, and perhaps others here, that the barrel sometimes needs to be rotated to bring the sights back into line. To this end, some years ago, I bought a frame wrench to assist in rotating the barrel. A barrel vise is fairly easy to find but not so with a frame wrench. There may be others here that will jump in with advice, and you may PM me with questions. I'm also willing to loan you my frame wrench for the price of postage.

Stay safe,

Took the recently acquired 17 to the range last week and had some sight issues. I generally get used to a gun before I make adjustments if needed but this was clearly off up and to the right 5-6 inches at 18 yards. I the set up a sturdy bag rest at 18 yards and found I could get it somewhat close but I was out of elevation adjustment and nearly so on windage. Elevation can be taken care of with a new blade but I am trying to figure out what to do about the windage. I have never had to move any Smith revolver mre than a few clicks. Using cci standard velocity, Remington High Velocity and Federal match all produced similar results and all groups were less than an inch spread with some almost a single hole.
The gun locks up solid, no discernable endshake and the barrel is not canted at all.Timing seems good and no gaps where the barrel and frame meet. The trigger is one of the best out of the box I have encountered.

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[329]

Thank you for the reply. So for a gun shooting high and to the right you would rotate it clockwise as looking at it from the grip end? Rear sight moves in the direction you want the group to go but the front sight has to move towards the group? Would the barrel be noticably out of line when looking at the revolver from the top?

I am hesitant to send to sw for warranty work, but do you think they could fix this without going back and forth a few times or coming back worse than before?

Thanks again.

 

[steelslaver]

Get a piece of 3/16" (.1875) rod and run it down the barrel and see where it hits on recoil shield. I suspect it may possibly have an out of square barrel. Might need send in.

There is also the wack with a Babbitt bar fix. I have only tried it once on a fixed sight I frame 32 long beater and it did work. Another option would be to purposely cant the barrel a few degrees

 

[paladin42]

barrel rotation

If the gun is shooting to the right, rotate the barrel clockwise looking from the grips. And yes, the barrel can appear to be lined up properly and still shoot off to one side. I've noticed this happens more often with non-pinned barrels. I've had to correct this enough times that I bought the frame wrench.

Thank you for the reply. So for a gun shooting high and to the right you would rotate it clockwise as looking at it from the grip end? Rear sight moves in the direction you want the group to go but the front sight has to move towards the group? Would the barrel be noticably out of line when looking at the revolver from the top?

I am hesitant to send to sw for warranty work, but do you think they could fix this without going back and forth a few times or coming back worse than before?

Thanks again.

 

[Camster]

Get a piece of 3/16" (.1875) rod and run it down the barrel and see where it hits on recoil shield. I suspect it may possibly have an out of square barrel. Might need send in.

There is also the wack with a Babbitt bar fix. I have only tried it once on a fixed sight I frame 32 long beater and it did work. Another option would be to purposely cant the barrel a few degrees

My opinion as well.
The barrel is not square in the frame. The frame hole is slightly off.

 

[H Richard]

If this is the case S&W would have to replace the frame. Do it now while the gun is new.

 

[ms]

Backwards

If the gun is shooting to the right, rotate the barrel counterclockwise looking from the grips. And yes, the barrel can appear to be lined up properly and still shoot off to one side. I've noticed this happens more often with non-pinned barrels. I've had to correct this enough times that I bought the frame wrench.

Move the front sight towards the group, back sight away from.

 

[329]

Get a piece of 3/16" (.1875) rod and run it down the barrel and see where it hits on recoil shield. I suspect it may possibly have an out of square barrel. Might need send in.

There is also the wack with a Babbitt bar fix. I have only tried it once on a fixed sight I frame 32 long beater and it did work. Another option would be to purposely cant the barrel a few degrees

Ok uploaded some photos. I used an aluminum cleaning rod micing .202 dia. I was able to turn it in circles to leave a mark. This is what I get as well as a couple other photos. The rod goes easily through the barrel and each cylinder to the shield.

 

[329]

So I also ran a steel scale along each side of the topstrap out the length of the barrel and it looked equal on both sides. I cant hold the camera, scale and gun at these time to photograph.

 

[steelslaver]

If the mark is just 1/32" between the muzzle and recoil shield it is 1/32 in appox 8" (barrel and cylinder) and 3/32" in 2ft. Your target was 18 yard which is 54ft or 27 x2 ft 27x3/32 is 81/32 or approx 2.5"

Your mark does not appear to be 100% centered, but slightly to the more to the sideplate side

Put a straight edge along each side of the rear sight tang and see if front rib and blade is centered.

 

[jeffrefrig]

If the gun was bought new I'd call S&W, but maybe otherwise maybe take paladin 44 up on his offer. If you got it pre owned that may be the reason it was passed on. I have its grandfather the K22 but I heard the M17s were just as accurate. One must have slipped through.

 

[329]

If the mark is just 1/32" between the muzzle and recoil shield it is 1/32 in appox 8" (barrel and cylinder) and 3/32" in 2ft. Your target was 18 yard which is 54ft or 27 x2 ft 27x3/32 is 81/32 or approx 2.5"

Your mark does not appear to be 100% centered, but slightly to the more to the sideplate side

Put a straight edge along each side of the rear sight tang and see if front rib and blade is centered.

I put the strait edge along the side but there is not a lot of material to locate against. That said after 2 or 3 measurements I could not come up with more than .5 mm difference (.020) so I will head to the range again and reset up the rest, shoot it off hand single and double action and see where we e fall. ThAnks again to all who have offered suggestions. If my next range session comes out the same it will be going back to SW for warranty. I just hate sending it back based on past experience but I think that is the prudent plan before I do anything else.

 

[steelslaver]

Hey, take a good look at the muzzle

 

[329]

Hey, take a good look at the muzzle

What am I looking for?

 

[steelslaver]

A ding or chatter marks, an of end to a land. A defect there can effect the bullet. It can cause in accuracy, but it could deflect every bullet the same amount. After you shoot it is the blast marks on the face uniform.?

Just a thought

I built a Smolt using a 6" Python barrel and had to adjust the rear sight somewhat off center. It bugged me and I checked everything repeatedly, adjusted the barrel timing a little bit and never did really figure it completely out. It shot great groups with my Ransom rest, just needed the rear sight partway off center.

 

[paladin42]

yes, of course

I had a senior moment. You are correct. Rotate the barrel clockwise.

Move the front sight towards the group, back sight away from.