A Tale of Two Brothers

[TheTinMan]

Almost 15 years ago, I was on a business trip and had some time to kill in Lynchburg, Virginia. I was actively building and fixing tube driven guitar amps and looking for a possible donor, so I went to a pawn shop I knew downtown. Not finding what I was looking for, I went over to the 8’ gun counter in the corner. “Looking for anything special?”

I still don’t know why it popped out except that I had been looking for one. “How about a Colt 1917 revolver?” The guy looked at me funny, bent over, and pulled this filthy thing off the bottom shelf. I never would have seen it. I tried to contain myself. Went outside and called my reloading mentor who told me a few things to look for. Went back in. They were asking $1,000. I told the guy I would pay $825 cash and I’d call after my next meeting. To my surprise, he said “OK” when I called a couple hours later.

So I have been looking for its Smith & Wesson brother from another mother since then. I finally got one:

It is in about the same condition as the Colt. There is a little bit of “freckling” on the left side of the barrel:

I am curious about one thing. There is a football shaped depression cut in the underside of the top strap (inside the cylinder window - I may be using the wrong words here). I’m sorry I couldn’t get a better photo than this, but it is very symmetrical. What the heck is it?

 

[JayCeeNC]

The cutout is a powder fouling cup to catch residue from black powder cartridges so it doesn't bind the cylinder when rotating.

 

[Baxter6551]

My 1917 commercial shipped 1927 has the same cutout. I’m now curious too.

 

[Artyldr01]

You are a man after my own heart. Frankly, I hadn't been interested (to my own detriment) most of my life. That changed when my dad passed away in 2019.

Fast forward to this year when I was at a militaria show and one of the vendors, a long-time friend from my town no less, had a Colt 1917 on the table. It had clearly been arsenal refinished, the front sight modified, and some condition issues on one side. When I inspected it closer, I saw it had two Arsenal rebuild marks, Augusta "AA" and my favorite Rock Island / Frank Krack "RIA FK." I LOVE rebuilds, even more than pristine originals.

HOWEVER, shortly after getting my Colt, a beautiful S&W came available, with an original, unit marked holster. They look very different, but I love them both equally.

Also, thanks for asking about the "football" cutout!

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[OutWest50]

Very nice. Congratulations! Old revolvers of past times .... priceless.

 

[raljr1]

Yeah, but the Smith is prettier.

 

[TheTinMan]

Yeah, but the Smith is prettier.

Honestly I was a bit surprised when I put them side by side. The Colt looks a bit brutish by comparison. The metal wasn’t polished much - and they just brushed on the finish. One of the “tells” of an original Colt 1917 finish is the brush marks going around the barrel up front at the sight, in contrast to lengthwise for the rest of the barrel.

 

[mikerjf]

TinMan - tube guitar amps, really? You and me both, I actually had tubes in electronics school from an old Navy guy (would have been ~1973). I've gone over to a Roland cube now but my brother is still flogging his old Marshalls, Fenders, and Voxes.

 

[chiefdave]

The cutout is a powder fouling cup to catch residue from black powder cartridges so it doesn't bind the cylinder when rotating.

Pulled 2 GI 1917's and a .455 out of the safe and none of them had the cutout.

 

[TheTinMan]

Pulled 2 GI 1917's and a .455 out of the safe and none of them had the cutout.

Interesting…. Any idea what the service dates of the 2 Model 1917s were?

 

[chiefdave]

Interesting…. Any idea what the service dates of the 2 Model 1917s were?

The .455 shipped 2/1916. Both of the 1917's shipped in 1918.

 

[Muley Gil]

My commercial 1917, #180692, shipped in January 1936, does have the fouling cup.

 

[serger]

TinMan - tube guitar amps, really? You and me both, I actually had tubes in electronics school from an old Navy guy (would have been ~1973). I've gone over to a Roland cube now but my brother is still flogging his old Marshalls, Fenders, and Voxes.

Yeah but is your B+ still ok? asking for a friend......

 

[pmanton]

My S&W 1917 S/N 1240XX has the fouling cup

 

[raljr1]

My first, second and third 44 HEs have the fouling cup as do both my military 1917 and my commercial model.

 

[Nonno]

Glad to learn about the "football" cutout in the topstrap. I have that in my 1909 Colt Officers Target 38, I was thinking it was gas burn from the cylinder gap, I'm relieved to know it was intentional and not a weakness in the topstrap... because the gun shoots beautifully, I enjoy taking it to the range.

And if you're fixing tube amps, you need a tube tester...

 

[Dvus]

So, my theory, and it could be total bupkis, is that since the .45 ACP was not a black powder cartridge, that frames made specifically for military use would not have the fouling cup to save a production step. Frames that were already on hand and used to fill in the military contract would likely have the fouling cup because they could have been used for other cartridges that you could still get loaded with black powder. I believe that you could still get .45 Colt loaded with black powder at the time.
Again, just a theory, because I don't know for certain. This is just what makes the most sense to me. Looking forward to my coming education on the subject.

 

[Model19man]

I am curious about one thing. There is a football shaped depression cut in the underside of the top strap (inside the cylinder window - I may be using the wrong words here). I’m sorry I couldn’t get a better photo than this, but it is very symmetrical. What the heck is it?[/QUOTE

Well it is a Colt thing. Here is a similar cutout on one of my SAA's:

 

[Model19man]

Colt called it a "Fouling Relief". It was a feature on every Colt revolver from black powder times until now.

 

[sodacan]

I have a set of 1917's also. All original like the day they left the factories. I shoot and enjoy them. I wish they could talk. It's really cool to shoot a piece of history.