Bucheimer and Bucheimer-Clark holster fit charts - 1953-1975 & later

[SG-688]

Still a blank - but guessing something for a European contract. Cheating on that since we know where Ranxerox lives...

To review the obvious, it's a Federal Man holster with an unusually wide (2 1/4 inch?) belt loop.

If it were a modern holster, with that wide profile, we'd guess it was for a light mounted pistol.

Even enlarged, I can't make out the stamping on the back of the thumb break paddle. PAT something? That might provide a clue if not simply a reference to the 1957 thumb break patent 2,917,213.

 

[Ranxerox]

Still a blank - but guessing something for a European contract. Cheating on that since we know where Ranxerox lives...

To review the obvious, it's a Federal Man holster with an unusually wide (2 1/4 inch?) belt loop.

If it were a modern holster, with that wide profile, we'd guess it was for a light mounted pistol.

Even enlarged, I can't make out the stamping on the back of the thumb break paddle. PAT something? That might provide a clue if not simply a reference to the 1957 thumb break patent 2,917,213.

Thanks, it's PAT #2,917,213 no idea what that could mean...and no idea what NJR is, I found nothing. My guess is still S&W 39-59...

 

[SG-688]

Show the front side of the holster please.

US Patent #2,917,213 for thumb break retention strap and an adjustable belt loop -- all expressed in patent lingo gibberish.
By G. Richard Bucheimer and the venerable Al Kippen -- with a reference to Chic Gaylord.
Picture is two pages from the patent combined.

 

[Ranxerox]

Show the front side of the holster please.

US Patent #2,917,213 for thumb break retention strap and an adjustable belt loop -- all expressed in patent lingo gibberish.
By G. Richard Bucheimer and the venerable Al Kippen -- with a reference to Chic Gaylord.
Picture is two pages from the patent combined.

Here we go:

 

[SG-688]

Even knowing the Beretta was a .32/.380, I was fooled on the proportions of the back view.

The strap suggests a pistol without a hammer like a previous holster guessed to fit something like an H&K P7 or P9 - but the holster looks too big for P7 and not big enough for a P9. Other suggestions?

Or maybe it's P-35 size with the strap located at the request of a bulk order customer. Is that a Fast Action?

 

[Ranxerox]

Even knowing the Beretta was a .32/.380, I was fooled on the proportions of the back view.

The strap suggests a pistol without a hammer like a previous holster guessed to fit something like an H&K P7 or P9 - but the holster looks too big for P7 and not big enough for a P9. Other suggestions?

Or maybe it's P-35 size with the strap located at the request of a bulk order customer. Is that a Fast Action?

The 35 on the pic fits but I don't feel it's the gun the holster is designed for. By Sig der 200- series the trigger guard won't fit, i think I'll stick with my S&W 39-59 guess

 

[SG-688]

Page 15 from the 1971 Bucheimer catalog showing the usual fit on a Colt Government Model that would be about the same for a S&W Model 39/59.

 

[taz666]

B 01 006 14 C

A black number 006 holster for fit code #14 - a 4 inch S&W K frame.


P.S. I searched for a meaning for the "C." Perhaps C for a belt clip as used with some other models.

===============

New guy here. Great thread.

I have the same holster w/number series on it ending w/"C". I'm thinking/guessing that the "C" means "coated" as in the old style patent leather shoes. I've seen a few examples of black holsters with the same number series sans the "C" and they are regular black leather.

The "C" marked holster seems to be cut so that the face of the leather is inside the holster (reversed) and the back side has a patent coating sewn on which is pretty shiny. This is exposed for view.

You can see the difference when looking at the belt loop of each holster variety. "C" designated holsters have the leather "face" exposed to view with stitching around the loop perimeter. Non "C" holsters have the leather back side exposed and no stitching around the loop perimeter.

Could be "C" designated a special duty holster?

 

[rednichols]

The letter suffix on a J.M.B. model number is its finish, so you were on the right track. Here "C" means 'Clarino' which was a non-woven (like a mat) material with a skin of glossy polymer to resemble patent leather. Real patent leather is expensive and a pain to maintain so Clarino became popular; originally a shoe material for such as sailors. Goddawful stuff to work with as a gunleather maker but suited J.M.B.'s very crude approach to making gunleather to a price point.

I've no J.M.B. product with the Clarino face so here's one from Shoemaker (like J.M.B. Tex focused on the uniform market; unlike J.M.B. his was a quality maker in the Western school tradition).

 

[SG-688]

One word was too short for the system, so

Pictures, pictures, pictures

 

[rednichols]

One word was too short for the system, so

Pictures, pictures, pictures

The OP has asked if I would post up a new find, which is the only known print ad (and not catalogs are known) of related company Thompson Leather Products. It was founded in '69 by a former VP of Bucheimer-Clark when the latter was sold as part of J.M. Bucheimer to Tandy; the founder promptly died at the end of '72. We have images of all its products except the one shown at upper right so a surprisingly large number of Thompson holsters and belts and pouches have survived into the present day. They are styled and constructed as if the designer, probably Earl Clark of B-C, was charged with changing every little detail to distinguish Thompsons from B-Cs, such as the many pointed leather shapes that typically are round, and the basketweave, and the mounting of the snap stud on the holster.

The Thompson line was absorbed by both the B-C and J.M.B. lines but by the end of the '70s the Bucheimer companies descended into chaos that the rest of us (Bianchi) didn't know about then. Charles Tandy also died, 1978, by which time an outsider had got his claws into both companies; and by the early 1980s J.M.B. was not the original company and it was bankrupted by the end of the '80s.

Be aware that J.M.B. police leather, and B-C leather were made very differently; J.M.B. used a painted leather without forming (so like all the makers of the East) and B-C made its products with full grain leather that was detailed in the same class as a Bianchi (so like all the makers of the West). Thompson followed the Western school in this regard. Their products are always prefixed with a B (means 'black' in Bucheimer-ese) and a T for Thompson. Followed by the finish then the model number. This practice continued in the Bucheimer brands: BT prefixes on the models that came from the Thompson original line.

1972:

 

[rednichols]

We can see the distinctive outline of a Thompson, or ThoompsonAlikes from JMB, in these images:

 

[SG-688]

And -- a reminder of the Clark Coachella, CA line with the same stagecoach marking and model numbering system previously discussed.

The holster business was an incestuous affair back then!!

Our Canadian compatriot who has several examples is working on a Thompson fit chart. I had expected the Bucheimer Thompson (BT) models to have the same fit code -- but they don't.

 

[Hawg Rider]

One I did not see listed...

OK, I couldn't find this B-C holster listed in the Thread, so I figured I'd add it to the database. This is a Bucheimer-Clark (Valencia, Calif) Model 61-12LH. It's all suede with a belt clip. This holster, along with the F.M. Pitt Co. 6-round basket weave cartridge holder (actual maker unknown), were carried daily by my wife's grandfather. He was an LEO and the Chief of Detectives in Montebello and Downey, CA in the 1950's thru 1970s. The holster was for his Model 15-2 snubby (ca. 1962) with Pachmayr grip adapter. The .38 Special ammo is from A-Merc in the 70s...why he had this junk ammo in his cartridge holster is a mystery. Enjoy!

 

[SG-688]

Model number 61 is on page 16 in the 1975 catalog. This picture would have been in the original thread.

Sorry, but great addition to the thread, especially showing the marking inside the body.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Model number 61 is on page 16 in the 1975 catalog. This picture would have been in the original thread.

Sorry, but great addition to the thread, especially showing the marking inside the body.

Thanks, I obviously missed it in the original post. You did a great job of compiling all of this info on B-C holsters...it is truly appreciated!

 

[Barter]

A little help please ?

Hello i am new here does someone now for what kind of gun the Bucheimer 65 H-D is ?

Thanks for any help or tips.

 

[SG-688]

The holster appears to be an early Bucheimer thumb break model. Turnerriver knows the most about those.

65 as a size designator can be for both a Colt or S&W 6 inch barrel revolver depending on the era and model of holster. From the master list:

Official Police, Marshall
40 / 45 = 4"
50 / 55 = 5"
60 / 65 = 6"

Mil. & Pol., K Series, Combat [Same numbers used for Colt Revolvers in later catalogs]
25 = 2"
45 = 4"
55 = 5"
65 = 6"

65 = 652 65F = 6" .38 SPEC. MILITARY & POLICE Perfect Fit holster

The Guardian thumb break holsters observed sometimes vary, with numbers similar to - but different - than the later Federal Man thumb break holster 3 digit numbers.

I recall that "HD" has come up before with no definitive answer but likely referring to the Smith & Wesson Heavy Duty 38-44.

 

[SG-688]

Although the ad/catalog copy has been posted previously, I've neglected adding the early Guardian fit codes to the list. I updated the pdf in the first page of the thread to this 2024 version.
Showing Federal Man also so all can work out the transitions from Guardian numbers to Federal Man!! [Colt DS #920 became #200. 940 became 400. 944 became 440. But it's not a firm rule.]

=================================

Bucheimer Guardian – first thumb snap holster 1950's
3 digit fit codes evolved to Federal Man codes. "S" for swivel.

920 920S = Colt Det. Spec Cobra 2"
940 940S = Colt OP & Marshall 4"
944 944S = Colt Cobra, PPS 4"
944 944S = Courier 3"
949 949S = Colt .357 & Trooper 4"
954 954S = Colt OP & Marshall 5"
964 964S = Colt OP & Marshall 6"
969 969S = Colt .357 & Trooper 6"

923 923S = Chief's Special 2"
925 925S = Military & Police 2"
942 942S = .357 Magnum & HP 4"
945 945S = Military & Police 4"
955 955S = Military & Police 5"
962 962S = .357 Magnum & HP 6"
965 965S = Military & Police 6"
988 988S = K22, K32, K38 Masterpiece 4"
989 989S = K22, K32, K38 Masterpiece 6"

===============================

Bucheimer Federal Man 1960's Thumb Snap

200 = Colt D Det. Spec Cobra 2"
210 = Colt D Marshal 2" High Standard 2 ½"
440 = Colt D Det. Spec Cobra 3"
290 = Colt I .357 Python 2 ½"
490 = Colt I .357 Python 4"
690 = Colt I .357 Python 6"
690 = Colt I .38 Officers Model 6"
400 = Colt I Marshal, Hi Standard 4"
500 = Colt I Marshal 5"
600 = Colt I Marshal, Hi Standard 6"
440 = Colt D Cobra, Police Positive 4"
540 = Colt D Police Positive 5"
640 = Colt D Police Positive 6"
410 = Colt Scout 4 ¾"
570 = Colt SAA 5 ½"

230 = S&W J Chief, Kit Gun 2"
330 = S&W J Chief, Kit Gun 3" 3 ½"
250 = S&W K Model 10 2"
350 = S&W K Model 10 4"
450 = S&W K Model 15, 19 4"
650 = S&W K Model 14, 19 6"
420 = S&W N .357, 1950 3 ½" 4"
520 = S&W N .357, 1950 5"
620 = S&W N .357, 1950 6" 6 ½"
610 = S&W N Model 29 6 ½"
830 = S&W N .357 8 3/8"

470 = Ruger .22 Single Six 4 5/8"
560 = Ruger .22 SS, Hi Standard Dbl. 9 5 ½"
580 = Ruger .22 Bearcat
670 = Ruger .22 Magnum SS 6 ½"
1410 = Ruger .357 BH 4 5/8"
1640 = Ruger .44 Mag. 6 ½"

280 = H&R
630 = H&R 2 ½"
680 = H&R 6"
660 = H&R 4"
710 = H&R 999

Bucheimer Federal Man 1970's Thumb Snap

200 = Colt Det Spec Cobra 2"
201 = Colt Det Spec Cobra 3"
205 = Colt Diamondback 2 ½"
210 = Colt Diamondback 4"
215 = Colt Python
220 = Colt Python, Trooper MK III 4"
225 = Colt OP, MK III
230 = Colt Police Positive 4"
300 = S&W Chief, Charter Arms 2"
303 = S&W Chief, Charter Arms 3"
305 = S&W Regulation Police 4"
310 = S&W Model 19 2 ½"
315 = S&W Model 10,12,15 2"
320 = S&W Model 10, 12, 15 4"
325 = S&W Model 15, 19 4"
330 = S&W Model 57, 58, 28, 29 4"
250 = Colt Commander
255 = Colt 45 Gov't, 38 Super
355 = S&W Model 39, 59
400 = Browning High Power
450 = Walther P-38
455 = Walther PPKS

Reminder that the master list PDF is searchable but that some art and interpretation is required to determine what a mystery holster might have been made for.

12-24 edit: See first and last pages of the thread for mast PDF list. More codes added.

 

[stonebuster]

Bucheimer Concealer C-1 question

I was looking for a concealer for a Model 65 3 inch barrel when I saw this one advertised as for k frame "2-2 1/2 or similar". I took a chance and ordered it because it looks long enough for the 3". It's marked C-1. I've got a C-15 that's made for a 2" k frame. Anyone know what a C-1 is made for?