Alaska Airlines Flight 1282...

[Exaviator]

Just to be clear, all doors and emergency exits on Boeing aircraft are, "Plug type," which not only adds to the overall strength of the fuselage, but also means that once the aircraft is evenly partially pressurized, they cannot being opened in flight. What failed in this incident was actually the surrounding panel that holds the emergency exit and attaches the whole assembly to the fuselage itself.

 

[Rotorhead1026]

Just to be clear, all doors and emergency exits on Boeing aircraft are, "Plug type," which not only adds to the overall strength of the fuselage, but also means that once the aircraft is evenly partially pressurized, they cannot being opened in flight. What failed in this incident was actually the surrounding panel that holds the emergency exit and attaches the whole assembly to the fuselage itself.

Overwing exits are no longer plug, starting with the 737NG. I’m pretty sure the 777 and 787 are the same.

 

[cmj8591]

Somebody <should> get fired at Boeing. There is no excuse for this sort of thing, none whatsoever.

This could have been so, soooo much worse. Imagine this door plug separating at, say, 35,000 feet, with passengers out of their seats or flight attendants in the aisle doing the beverage or meal service. How many passengers or crew members would have been expelled from the airplane? It's too horrible to think about...

Somewhere around my house, in my modest collection of WWII aviation literature and books, I have magazine ads that Boeing used to run in Life and Look. Featuring heavily-damaged B-17s, the text of the ads touted the strength of Boeing aircraft...the truss construction of the wing spars, the self-sealing fuel tanks, the autopilot and redundant controls...and promised Mr. and Mrs. America that their sons were going to war in the finest airplanes in the sky. The ads went on to promise that when the war was over, that same Boeing expertise and technology would be used to make civilian airliners...

I have no doubt that right now, tonight, William Boeing is spinning in his grave...

It sort of makes all those complaints we read here about scratches and canted front sights on new S&W's seem a little frivolous, doesn't it?

 

[ggibson511960]

Just to be clear, all doors and emergency exits on Boeing aircraft are, "Plug type," which not only adds to the overall strength of the fuselage, but also means that once the aircraft is evenly partially pressurized, they cannot being opened in flight. What failed in this incident was actually the surrounding panel that holds the emergency exit and attaches the whole assembly to the fuselage itself.

The surrounding panel or frame did not fail. It's all there including the stop pads attached to the frame. It is not clear yet if anything failed. The proximate cause may be the failure or omission of; hinge bolts, castellated hinge bolt nuts or cotter keys securing nuts. It is possible for the door to rattle around and actually perform without these fastener hardware pieces because the cabin is lightly pressurized to about 0.25 psi differential on throttle advance. 0.25 psi will jam the plug tight against all but the most severe jolts. Had the frame around the plug failed it's likely that a bunch of fuselage skin would have peeled off, or worse.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Problem solved.

 

[Racer X]

They are known locally as "Jerry Garcia Memorial Airlines." I think, though, that the Eskimo looks healthier than Jerry even before he kicked the bucket.

originally, the native Inuit portrayed was smiling, but it rose the ire of the Inuits, as they are a serious community, and not known for their warm smiles. The artwork was changed.

My buddies dad wrote the corporate history for Alaska Airlines, and after exhaustive research, he submitted I think 16 proof copies to their Board for approval, and after reading them cover to cover, they were all recovered by Alaska's board, made to dissapear forever, including Archie's own copy, and never seen since. He was paid well though. Archie Sattertfield. The family does not know what he uncovered and included in the book, but I can assure you, some really wild stuff went on way back in the beginning.

 

[bullmack]

How could the bolts have even been in there, or, at a minimum, had the nuts even improperly installed? From what I've read the plug side of the attachment points were not damaged? This event sounds like more than an error to me.

 

[Krogen]

originally, the native Inuit portrayed was smiling, but it rose the ire of the Inuits, as they are a serious community, and not known for their warm smiles. The artwork was changed.

My buddies dad wrote the corporate history for Alaska Airlines, and after exhaustive research, he submitted I think 16 proof copies to their Board for approval, and after reading them cover to cover, they were all recovered by Alaska's board, made to dissapear forever, including Archie's own copy, and never seen since. He was paid well though. Archie Sattertfield. The family does not know what he uncovered and included in the book, but I can assure you, some really wild stuff went on way back in the beginning.

That's interesting! Alaska has been my preferred airline for a good long time. I can only image what went on behind the scenes early on. They weren't a prim and proper bunch; anything but!

One recollection was the drinking fountains in their area at SEA. Lean over, push the button and water flowed to the sound effects of slurping and glug, glug glug.... Now drinking fountains are but a memory, let alone the inglorious sound effects.

Then there were champagne flights. Not just in first class, but for everybody. The attendants handed out plastic cups and went around pouring as much cheap champagne as you wanted. Never saw anybody get out of line, but we were a happy bunch. One time we were leaving San Jose and the stew got on the PA and said "we have good news and bad news.' The bad news was that the meals failed to make the flight. Remember those? Real food on an airplane? The good news was that they were opening the bar from San Jose to Seattle.

Different times. Things aren't the same anymore; for both Alaska Airlines and me. Still, in my book, they are far above the rest of the pack. Despite the recent mishap, I won't hesitate to get on another flight with them.

 

[Retired W4]

I have to really restrain my comments on the NTSB's involvement so far. As for the head of the NTSB, what an... I can't say it!! She would do herself and the agency a great service if she stayed in her office and kept her mouth shut.

I've dealt with them in the past and have been in their lab in D.C. Great folks there. Out in the field and at the top...not so much. Of course that was over 20 years ago.

 

[ladder13]

After an emergency exit-sized hole opened in the side of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 at 16,000 feet, a separate chaotic episode erupted when the cockpit door mysteriously flew open.

That meant the pilots were subjected to the deafening wind and noise from the back of the plane—and also made the cockpit accessible to anyone inclined to try to force their way in.

What the flight crew didn’t know at the time, federal investigators said Monday, was that it was supposed to happen that way. Boeing had designed the cockpit door to open during a rapid decompression incident, they said. The company just hadn’t said so in the manual

Alaska Airlines Blowout Reveals Cockpit Door Vulnerability on Boeing Jet - WSJ

 

[Oldengineer]

I have a life long friend that is a retired Boeing Chief Engineer. He claims that Boeing deserves what they get with the Max. He would not elaborate.

 

[Racer X]

That's interesting! Alaska has been my preferred airline for a good long time. I can only image what went on behind the scenes early on. They weren't a prim and proper bunch; anything but!

One recollection was the drinking fountains in their area at SEA. Lean over, push the button and water flowed to the sound effects of slurping and glug, glug glug.... Now drinking fountains are but a memory, let alone the inglorious sound effects.

Then there were champagne flights. Not just in first class, but for everybody. The attendants handed out plastic cups and went around pouring as much cheap champagne as you wanted. Never saw anybody get out of line, but we were a happy bunch. One time we were leaving San Jose and the stew got on the PA and said "we have good news and bad news.' The bad news was that the meals failed to make the flight. Remember those? Real food on an airplane? The good news was that they were opening the bar from San Jose to Seattle.

Different times. Things aren't the same anymore; for both Alaska Airlines and me. Still, in my book, they are far above the rest of the pack. Despite the recent mishap, I won't hesitate to get on another flight with them.

Last time I flew Horizon, their close haul airline, beer and wine was free, and it was decent PNW wine and good PNW microbrews.

I was hammered just flying from Portland to Seattle! I was the only one on the 28 seat flight drinking beer, so they were just handing me those full 22oz microbrew bottles. I was in the front row, so I would hold the empty out and an arm would appear from around the partition, with a fresh cold one and my empty just.... vanished. Magical! My wife winked, and told the flight attendant she would drive, not to worry.

 

[swsig]

I have a life long friend that is a retired Boeing Chief Engineer. He claims that Boeing deserves what they get with the Max. He would not elaborate.

Scary. I'm glad my flying days are over.

 

[Kevin J.]

New aircraft assembly line?

 

[ggibson511960]

Outsourcing

I have a life long friend that is a retired Boeing Chief Engineer. He claims that Boeing deserves what they get with the Max. He would not elaborate.

It didn't get much attention after the MCAS disasters, but it was revealed that Boeing had outsourced programming work, formerly done by Boeing direct employees, to an Indian labor supply company that placed software engineers in Seattle. This happens throughout American industry, strictly for cost savings. The accounting department can't be stopped when they learn that $50/hour direct employees can be replaced by $10/hour outsourced H1's. Worse yet, the state department has an annual limit on H1's but there is no limit on intellectual content that can be outsourced overseas. There are "high value" (cheap) engineering centers all over the world working for American firms on American products. Amazing that Boeing could get away with this as a lot of their white collar engineering staff is unionized. We wring our hands and wonder why China graduates more engineers in a year than the U.S. has in existence.

 

[LVSteve]

I have a life long friend that is a retired Boeing Chief Engineer. He claims that Boeing deserves what they get with the Max. He would not elaborate.

Boeing has been lousing up for a while. Bad production controls to the point that several airlines would not accept 787s built at Charleston, and bad fixed price deals with the DoD have cost them billions. ‘Cautionary tale’: How Boeing won a US Air Force program and lost $7B

 

[swsig]

Apparently they’ve been flying this plane with decompression warning lights going off for three days. The only concession they made was no long flights over water.

I'd like to understand the reasoning of the brain-dead boogerhead manager at Alaska Airlines that made that decision. I guess the thinking was, "If explosive decompression happens over water, that would be bad publicity. If it happens over land, that's OK."