357 MAGNUM SNUBBY. M-686 or M-60. WHAT IS YOUR CHOICE ?

[oldrookey617]

How many choices is there for a 357 magnum snubby ? I thought they had trouble with the older K-Frames like the M-66 shooting the magnum ammo, cracking the frames & forcing cones, so they beefed up to a L-Frame M-686, I think the 686 Plus with the 3 inch barrel is just Alsum looking, thought about getting one to shoot and carry, until I looked at one at the LGS, to large to carry a long distance, so I bought a new M-60, shot 10 357 rounds, Just my thoughts, that type & size of revolver should be for a 38 sp. or smaller, My LGS sold it for me, I will stick with my M-637 airweight, IWB at 2 or 10 O'clock, and do my 2-3 mile walk everyday with no problem, I want a gun that feels nice to shoot for self defense, I can hit the target way better with the M-637, than the M-60, I can use 38 sp. ammo in the M-60, but it is way more weight to carry, That's Just Me, What is your thoughts ?

 

[K Harris]

The new Model 66 does not have the thin spot in the barrel lug to accommodate the yoke like the old models did. The lockup up front is now a ball and detent arrangement. The 2.75" barrel model also has a full length ejector rod. Smith & Wesson claim that it is now as strong as the 686, and able to handle an unlimited amount .357 magnum. It is a few ounce lighter than the 3" 686 Plus.

 

[oldrookey617]

Yes, that sounds like a good option if you want to carry 357 mag. ammo, I'm sure you can get a low recoil 357 cartridge, not sure on the weight of the new M-66, maybe around 32 Oz's. I could not find any 357 mag. wadcutter ammo around a year ago, don't think they make it..

 

[John Patrick]

3" M13 or M65 or M66, pre lock.

2 1/2" M19, M66, pre lock.

But there is no imperative to carry 357 ammo if you get Buffalo Bore's very hot +P 38spl, imo. Or Speer 135gr +P Sort barrel ammo.

38spl +P opens up 2" M10, M64.

If weight is the end all, be all, then the scandium 386's or 315 would fill the bill. But not inexpensive and hard to find. The L frame, seven shot 386 PD weigh about 19oz.

K frames are ok with heavy bullet 357 loads, but why practice with them when you can practice with 38spl?

It was the general change in police practice regimen from practice with 38spl but carry 357 to practice with your carry ammo that caused K frame issues. And light bullets too.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I am looking at the Performance Center 586 Plus for my Sunday Best Carry. I prefer OWB carry but that is me.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I could not find any 357 mag. wadcutter ammo around a year ago, don't think they make it..

Wadcutters are low power rounds designed for paper punching and are soft lead. Doubtful you'll find any loaded to magnum levels in magnum cases unless you roll your own, but you'd have lead fouling issues running them at magnum velocities.

I carry a M66-1 snubby and I'm not worried about cracking the forcing cone. It's my second M66 and I have an M19 which is my second one of them. They all have a regular dose of magnum loads, and the ones I shot back in the late 1970's got 125 grain magnum loads regularly without issue. I don't run hot loads in any of my revolvers regardless of frame size or reputation for failure or great durability. I stick to medium magnum powder loads with 158 grain JHP or RNFP plated bullets (range loads) at around 1250 fps. If I want more power than they can deliver, I move up in caliber.

 

[K Harris]

There are a few very good .357 rounds available that have less recoil. The Speer 135 grain Gold Dot for short barrels, The Remington 125 grain Golden Saber, Buffalo Bore 125 grain XPB Low Flash Short Barrel, Hornady 135 Grain Critical Duty FTX and the Winchester 125 grain PDX1 Defender. The Speer and Remington seem to be the softest shooting of the bunch.

 

[oldrookey617]

Yes, I was looking for something in a 357 mag. with real low power to practice & carry in a M-60 2 inch barrel, but I sold it, could hit my target better with my little M637 than the M60 for some reason, bought the M60 to shoot better than the 637. Did not really want to use 38 Sp. ammo in a 357 gun, I think they should just make the M-60 snubby for 38 sp. ammo only, but that's just me..

 

[mikeruns]

I think you answered your own question…heavier load= heavy recoil in light gun. Imo, .38 will do its purpose as it has done for over a 100 years. An option I use if I want to carry magnums is, I carry a 2-3/4" Ruger speed-six or a 2-1/8" Ruger sp101. They handle all the magnums I can shoot….negative side is they are heavier than a j frame. I personally don't mind as they are small guns and I holster appropriately and it's not like I am literally carrying weights, it's a small hefty magnum for crying out loud. If I am dressed very lite, I carry a very lite 642…that's as good as it gets for me with no complaints. It sounds like you are set to jet with your 637, carry and be free and comfortable yet armed satisfactorily.

 

[prescobd]

I think they should just make the M-60 snubby for 38 sp. ammo only, but that's just me..

I agree, that's why I picked up a model 60-12, a 60-15 Pro and a 649-4, that are chambered in .38 Special only. I'm looking for a model 640-2 as well. All are .38 Specials on the newer magnum frame.

 

[BAM-BAM]

The issue with the forcing cone cracking on older K-frames was using the early 1970/80s "hot" 125 gr .357 ammo. Commercial .357 isn't what it use to be even in the 1930s

I carry 125gr +P .38 hollow point ammo in urban environments. Woods carry it's 158 gr soft point for maximum penetration.

My EDC .357s are a 3" J-frame 60-10; think micro 5 shot 686, 3" K-frame 66s and .65s or a L-frame 4" round butt 686.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Concur

The new Model 66 does not have the thin spot in the barrel lug to accommodate the yoke like the old models did. The lockup up front is now a ball and detent arrangement. The 2.75" barrel model also has a full length ejector rod. Smith & Wesson claim that it is now as strong as the 686, and able to handle an unlimited amount .357 magnum. It is a few ounce lighter than the 3" 686 Plus.

That thin spot on the forcing cone for the old model 19 and some other models seemed thick enough, and was still thicker than the forcing cones of other revolvers. The thickness? That it was cut? No the problem was with the metallurgy. Please anyone correct me I am not the expert!

The problem I know about was that we were shooting the legendary Federal 125 grain SJHP which had gained mythic status, in the stopping power literature of the day, but certainly in our minds (read in BrianD's mind!) We would go to the range and shoot a bunch of LRN and some 158gr SWC and then end up the session with those Federals. Why...we even thought the copper jacket would clean the leading out of the barrel. It did with other unintended consequences. I never blew out any forcing cones myself because I had a model 28, but others did.

Now the doctrine has changed. First of all, stopping power, as I understood it, is a myth. Furthermore, and most importantly, is you run your self-defense drills FIRST. Only the first cold run counts, because as Hackathorn says, that is the only one that WILL count. Use a good solvent and a proper brush to take care of the leading.

S&W could change the design of their revolvers, but then they would be as ugly as a Dan Wesson. It is the improved metallurgy that enables the current 19/66 to shoot anything while still looking as beautiful as a combat magnum.

Kind Regards,
BrianD

 

[Rakkasan13F]

3" M13 or M65 or M66, pre lock.

You, sir, have great taste.

 

[JohnRippert]

I have a couple M640's that, with the right grips, are not a problem when shooting 158gr .357's

 

[stansdds]

J-frame for best concealed carry. L-frame for open carry. K-frame is a good compromise between the ease of concealment offered by the J-frame and the ease of shooting offered by the L-frame.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Sorry oldrookey617, I wouldn't choose either of those revolvers. But that's just me, and that's why there are so many different models available for shooters' preferences. If I want a .357 Magnum that's a little lighter and easier to carry, I'll take the nickel Model 19-4 snubby with speed strips. If I'm in the woods or somewhere I feel I might need a couple more rounds, I take the 627-5 snub. It's a little bigger and slightly heavier, but in an OWB crossdraw holster it's not a problem. Good luck with your decision.