Early Post-War Military & Police values?

[Gartenmeister]

My local shop has an M&P that shows very nicely. It is in very good to excellent condition and comes with what appears to be the correct gold box with info card. Barrel is 5".

Serial is S 856xxx. Single-line trademark.

I'm not an advanced collector but as I said the gun shows nicely and I'm becoming more interested in S&Ws from this era. So I'd consider purchasing at a fair price. They are asking roughly $1300.

Poking around on the net I see quite a few similar guns offered for a lot less money, but most do not have the box and high condition. I found one very similar with a 6" barrel for a lot less.

So the question is, what are these generally worth and what are the finer points that influence value? I'm particularly interested if the barrel length should make a difference. Thanks for your input.

 

[murphydog]

Jack (JP@AK) is the local expert on these and may be along shortly with more information, He can probably tell you how common 5" guns were in this serial number range, but as you describe it to me this gun sounds about 40% overpriced.

 

[22hipower]

This one is a 5 inch, SN S837418 from 1946, the S prefix was used only 1946-1948, no box. I paid $150 for this one although that was 25 years ago. If I found one like it today with the box I might be willing to pay $800-$900. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2pC6yAB https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

 

[Retired W4]

For me the 5" seemed a little harder to find. I don't know if they generally carry a premium over the 4". I purchased the one on top, S955xxx, from KenL so I probably paid a LOT! We'll see if Ken sees this.

$1300 seems high regardless, even with the original box. Show them this thread and they might come to their senses.

Top has the old long action hammer, bottom has short action "speed hammer". The 4" is my C prefix w/one line address which makes it a bit unusual, but again I don't know how that effects value. I spend what I need to for a gun I want.

Good luck with the negotiations.

Another interesting variation is the late war SV prefix guns (commercial production) that left the factory with the post war satin blue, the lanyard loop removed and plugged and a S stamped on the side plate under the stock panel. For me they bring a slight premium, but they were all 4" guns. The experts feel free to correct me on this point, but it's a little off subject.

 

[JP@AK]

Serial is S 856xxx

Probably shipped in December, 1946, or January, 1947.
There is one with a close-by serial number that shipped in March, 1947, in a batch of 10 to a single distributor. But that one is late for the serial range. Of course, they did not normally ship in serial order.

Single-line trademark

All the S prefix M&Ps still had the one line address. The last S prefix M&P (S999999) was assembled in March, 1948, before the change to the four line address.

gold box with info card

Gold box is correct. The "info card" should be the Helpful Hints brochure.

Barrel is 5"
I'm particularly interested if the barrel length should make a difference

The only barrel length that usually gets a premium is the 2". The 5" is the second most common during this period (second only to the 4").

They are asking roughly $1300

Yes, that's a bit high, even with today's pricing. I think it is $400 to $500 high, but prices have risen over the past 2-3 years. I own about 2 dozen of these and the most I've paid was $650, and that one was a 6" unit that was nearly ANIB (just a tiny bit of blue wear).

I hope this helps.

 

[JP@AK]

A few illustrations of the early postwar M&P revolvers (S prefix).

This one is very early, shipped in March, 1946. 5" barrel, maroon box, HH. Notice that it wears its original stocks that are in the prewar style. Those stocks were used on the early commercial SV and S prefix units. All of them were gone by April, 1946.

A 2" square butt, shipped in September, 1947.

Just for the fun of it, I'll throw this one in. It is a rare .32 M&P that shipped in April, 1948, to a distributor in New York.

 

[Hawg Rider]

I picked up a nice 6" nickel M&P with MOP stocks (ca. 1949-1950) from my lgs abut 10 years ago for $350...no box or goodies. I would value it today at around $800 (including a slight premium for nickel). However, the 5" you're looking at is probably not as common as my 6", so add another $100 and $150 for the box. I would value that package at about $1050...IMO $1300 is much too much.

 

[JP@AK]

However, the 5" you're looking at is probably not as common as my 6"

This is a common, but incorrect, assumption.

My research data (including approximately 15,000 units) indicate that the 6" was the least common barrel length in the 1946-48 period. Even the 2" units were produced in greater quantity, if you include both grip frame configurations. Of course, the round butt 2" is, by itself, the least common by far.

Here is the order:
4" (most common)
5"
2" square butt
6"
2" round butt

 

[Ameshawki]

More than I would want to pay and I collect them. $800 would be my absolute top dollar and I'm not entirely sure I'd go that high.

 

[JP@AK]

late war SV prefix guns (commercial production)
but they were all 4" guns.

Actually, no. The vast majority of the SV guns were 4" units (most were shipped to the Navy in or before August, 1945), but there was a substantial number of the SV units fitted with 5" barrels in the postwar period.

The highest SV number (less one oddball) in my database is SV813132. It is a 5" unit that shipped to a distibutor in Hartford, CT, on April 4, 1946.

 

[Retired W4]

Actually, no. The vast majority of the SV guns were 4" units (most were shipped to the Navy in or before August, 1945), but there was a substantial number of the SV units fitted with 5" barrels in the postwar period.

The highest SV number (less one oddball) in my database is SV813132. It is a 5" unit that shipped to a distibutor in Hartford, CT, on April 4, 1946.

Very interesting. I lust checked my SV812256. 4' with barrel ejector rod, plugged butt swivel, fitted with stocks with blued milled steel stock circle insert, long throw hammer. I paid $682 several years ago.

SV prefix on the butt but not on the cylinder or barrel flat. S on the side plate.

 

[Gartenmeister]

OP here. Thank you everyone for the input. Sounds like its overpriced, and that's good to know. Here's a photo of the gun in question.

 

[murphydog]

OP here. Thank you everyone for the input. Sounds like its overpriced, and that's good to know. Here's a photo of the gun in question.

That's a nice example but not $1300 worth of nice, to me.

 

[Retired W4]

Yes, nice package. IF the box is numbered to the gun (in grease pencil on the bottom) and all the numbers match, including the stocks, I would go back with 8 crisp hundred dollar bills and see what they say. All they can say is NO. If it were me, and it's just me, I would have another hundred in my pocket, just because it goes well with others in my safe.

 

[larryofcc]

Very interesting. I lust checked my SV812256. 4' with barrel ejector rod, plugged butt swivel, fitted with stocks with blued milled steel stock circle insert, long throw hammer. I paid $682 several years ago.

SV prefix on the butt but not on the cylinder or barrel flat. S on the side plate.

My SV 809976 was shipped to HD Folsom Co. 4-4-46. Has the original numbered purple box and actual pre war numbered and checkered magna stocks with the aluminum, patent dated stock circles. All the rest is like yours. It too is a 4". Bought it off this Forum for $800. The gun and box are minty. A letter came with the gun. Big Larry

 

[Gartenmeister]

Yes, nice package. IF the box is numbered to the gun (in grease pencil on the bottom) and all the numbers match, including the stocks, I would go back with 8 crisp hundred dollar bills and see what they say.

Thanks for the tip on the box number, I didn't know about that. Cash money makes no difference to the shop, other than negating the credit card fee. The gun is a consignment so price flexibility depends on the owner.

 

[JP@AK]

pre war numbered and checkered magna stocks with the aluminum, patent dated stock circles

Larry

Good info. But you should check that stock circle medallion with a magnet. I've never encountered one that was aluminum. It should be milled steel.

 

[JP@AK]

S on the side plate.

The S on the top rear of the sideplate was a visual indicator that the inside of the sideplate had been milled for the new sliding hammer block safety. It eventually went away and many of the S prefix guns (from, for example, 1947 and 1948) do not have the S in that location.

No one has been able to confirm this, but I think that S was put there after the milling process to speed up identification of the correctly milled sideplates for the convenience of the fitters. At that time, there were still sideplates that lacked the appropriate milling on the inside. Production speed being especially important in 1945 (until August), every little bit helped. (NOTE: This is my unconfirmed theory.)

 

[desi2358]

Thanks for the tip on the box number, I didn't know about that. Cash money makes no difference to the shop, other than negating the credit card fee. The gun is a consignment so price flexibility depends on the owner.

At that price I wouldn't be surprised if the gun sits for a while. I tend to agree with others that the gun is overpriced for what it is. I've seen more than a few overpriced (in my opinion) consigned guns that didn't move quickly unless someone either did no research or just impulse bought them. I have had some luck making offers to the consignee, especially if a gun sits for a while. And if I missed one at a price I considered too high so be it.

 

[Goony]

...The vast majority of the SV guns were 4" units (most were shipped to the Navy in or before August, 1945), but there was a substantial number of the SV units fitted with 5" barrels in the postwar period....

Photo attached of 5" SV7702XX.