Was the "Value Series" the zenith of S&W metal frame pistols?
- Thread starter JohnHL
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mrmike7189
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Trooper224
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Not the zenith, but rather a symptom of Stage 4 polymer cancer.
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LOL, wow!!!
I bought my blued 908 as a backup, when I didn't want to save for the sweet 3913. Which would have cost less, after hard chroming the slide (rust pits from me sweating in summer heat) and paying the extra cost of special night sights (those factory plastic sights). And a steel 3913 guide rod.
It likes 147gr rounds, so that's what I use in it. Hogue grips. Midway still has recoil springs, last I checked. This is likely a keeper, a lot of history. The 908 remains a good teaching gun for the grandkids, but the CSX seems to have replaced it for carry.
I've never owned a CS, but some experienced guys I know think highly of them.
Some years back, before so many gun forums were hacked, and before ownership change of this forum, a gunsmith out of Florida gave a good recommendation for the 915. I still haven't bought one, but it remains on my list…
And yes, the Value Line were inexpensive, and kinda ugly, but affordable for some folks. And my 908 still runs fine.
I bought my blued 908 as a backup, when I didn't want to save for the sweet 3913. Which would have cost less, after hard chroming the slide (rust pits from me sweating in summer heat) and paying the extra cost of special night sights (those factory plastic sights). And a steel 3913 guide rod.
It likes 147gr rounds, so that's what I use in it. Hogue grips. Midway still has recoil springs, last I checked. This is likely a keeper, a lot of history. The 908 remains a good teaching gun for the grandkids, but the CSX seems to have replaced it for carry.
I've never owned a CS, but some experienced guys I know think highly of them.
Some years back, before so many gun forums were hacked, and before ownership change of this forum, a gunsmith out of Florida gave a good recommendation for the 915. I still haven't bought one, but it remains on my list…
And yes, the Value Line were inexpensive, and kinda ugly, but affordable for some folks. And my 908 still runs fine.
They definitely weren't as low priced as the "Value Series".
Maybe they just should have called them the "Better Than Value Series"?
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2004 S&W Catalog pricing
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Smiths have never been cheap.
But from my experience, their MSRPs tended to be a lot more optimistic than realistic.
I recall a price list from the '80s that listed MSRPs from every one of the semi-autos as being higher than the Model 629, except for the lowest priced 3913.
I also recall that they were selling for less than the MSRP to private folks and much less to agency orders.
The 2004 price list shows the CS45 listing for $760.00, but in 2003, I paid around $400.00 for my CS40, and it was new.
But as to "suggested" pricing, the marketing folks certainly knew that there was a "higher line" model for every "Value Series" pistol so they had to be priced lower.
Every "Value Series" pistol, except for the CS models.
And that brings us back to them being "sub-compact".
S&W had nothing comparable to them, so they could be "listed" higher.
John
Exactly.
10-12 yrs ago I got a pawn shop 908. Under $300.00 snasty dirty. I detailed striped it, cleaned lubed all, new recoil spring and NOS grip. I liked it.
A few years later JohnHL mentioned here about the parts compatibility with the 3914. Hmmm. The 3914 parts were readily available for a reasonable price then. I got a four "step" safety/de-cocker, (yep I know ambi but,) flat slide stop and blued steel guide rod. Was that needed, no.
If and when the plastic sights fail I'll replace them. If and when the plastic pushed on mag release fails, I've got new magazine release catch buttons and springs if needed.
I've got other like size single stack S&W 9mm's to compare to and the 908's are a viable, less expensive, (or they were,) alternative to the others.
Jim
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Aukula1062
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I agree, street prices can vary. Not likely many people paid MSRP $$ but it's a set price the company valued them at, on some level, that we can only assume was constant across their line of products.
The 3913TSW was more expensive than some of the N-frames in 2004.
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From the same 2004 catalog
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Hadn't considered it before, but the value series is sort of a step in the Glock direction. More plastic parts, blocked off slide. Ugly as sin. Just like a Glock, only an Al frame. 
Lots of other differences, but I am shooting from the hip here..
Rosewood
Lots of other differences, but I am shooting from the hip here..
Rosewood
I had a 1076 and 5903 for years. Found a 908 on the local trader and the guy had already lowered the price like 2-3 times from $350. He finally said, someone make me an offer, so I offered $200 for it, he countered with $225. I accepted. Found I loved it, but wished it was in stainless. Discovered the 3913 and the hunt was on. Finally got a deal on Gunbroker ($360) and it has been my primary EDC since. I am thinking that was 2018 or 2019.
That started my hunt for 3rd Gens. Can't help myself now, think I am around 12 or so.
Picked up a 915 last years at a pawn shop that had a clearance on guns for $215 out the door. Had to clean the slide up some, but it shoots great. Going to blast and blue it one of these days.
Any 4 digit 3rd gen under $400 is almost an immediate purchase. Any value series under $300 the same. Higher prices will take some thought unless it is one I have been hunting or it is a rare one.
Rosewood
That started my hunt for 3rd Gens. Can't help myself now, think I am around 12 or so.
Picked up a 915 last years at a pawn shop that had a clearance on guns for $215 out the door. Had to clean the slide up some, but it shoots great. Going to blast and blue it one of these days.
Any 4 digit 3rd gen under $400 is almost an immediate purchase. Any value series under $300 the same. Higher prices will take some thought unless it is one I have been hunting or it is a rare one.
Rosewood
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Wrong I bought 4 3913/3914s at that price or less; two were NLs. Bunch of $10 mags too!
Folks wanted the 10+1 Glock 26 or 27......... I ended up with the best end of that bargain......cus the 39xx's were all ANIB "sock drawer" guns.
IIRC the cheapest was an "as new" 3914 around $250..... cheaper cus it was "blue" not stainless. Also a great time to pick up a "back up" 6904 or 6906 or both...... $300 guns with 2-4 mags!
Between 2000 and 2010 was a great time to pick up cheap "sock drawer" 915s.
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It was an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to compete on price with Glock. Glock targeted the military and police markets which Smith had dominated for decades and it hurt their bottom line.
I don't know if it worked in the short term and it wasn't until the M&P polymer frame guns came out that smith became competitive again. At least that is my impression.
I owned a M&P9c for a couple of years. It was very clinky and I sold it to fund the purchase of a former police 6906. A much better gun IMO. I don't carry it,but love shooting it.
I don't know if it worked in the short term and it wasn't until the M&P polymer frame guns came out that smith became competitive again. At least that is my impression.
I owned a M&P9c for a couple of years. It was very clinky and I sold it to fund the purchase of a former police 6906. A much better gun IMO. I don't carry it,but love shooting it.
Hadn't considered it before, but the value series is sort of a step in the Glock direction. More plastic parts, blocked off slide. Ugly as sin. Just like a Glock, only an Al frame.
Lots of other differences, but I am shooting from the hip here..
Rosewood
You just have to be patient and you can find bargains.
A 3914DAO for under $500.00 including shipping and transfer, an ANIB 6946 with two magazines for $325.00 OTD from a FFL, and a very nice 3913LS with two magazinesfor $420.00.
They're out there, you just have to find them.
A 3914DAO for under $500.00 including shipping and transfer, an ANIB 6946 with two magazines for $325.00 OTD from a FFL, and a very nice 3913LS with two magazinesfor $420.00.
They're out there, you just have to find them.
Yes.
Making Beautiful guns had always been part of the S&W brand.
I heard about the Model 29 and silhouette shooting. The Dan Wesson pistols were stronger in every way and the model 29 especially had a much weaker and thinner top strap. It was further weakened by the sight groove cut in it. You simply could not shoot the Dan Wesson loads in that gun. It was out of the question to make the top strap thicker because then it would be as UGLY as a Dan Wesson! The solution was the "endurance package" of 1988 which worked pretty well, though you will still hear the ignorant and unaware saying that you must only shoot magnums occasionally in the M29. (Can anyone correct me here?)
I also heard that S&W hired a high-priced artist to design the grips on the third gen, the beautiful curvy checkering pattern on the Delrin grips. I really appreciate the design myself and it goes a long way to make the guns at least less ugly than the Glock. (Anyone know the story?)
I am of the opinion that Smith has finally learned to make their guns just as ugly as anybody's
Kind Regards!
BrianD
You are basically correct, Rosewood. Adding to my comment #26, the name "American Pride Series" was a thinly veiled dig at Glock. Because it was metal and made in America it was something to be "proud" of, unlike that piece of Austrian plastic which had captured such a market share. American Pride or Austrian Plastic, you see. The Clinton ban brought about a lot of changes including more plastic parts to what was now called "Value Series" because they were still trying to get their agency market back and the Glock is a hundred dollars cheaper per unit. (At least! Please correct me anyone.)Hadn't considered it before, but the value series is sort of a step in the Glock direction. More plastic parts, blocked off slide. Ugly as sin. Just like a Glock, only an Al frame.
Lots of other differences, but I am shooting from the hip here..
Rosewood
Making Beautiful guns had always been part of the S&W brand.
I heard about the Model 29 and silhouette shooting. The Dan Wesson pistols were stronger in every way and the model 29 especially had a much weaker and thinner top strap. It was further weakened by the sight groove cut in it. You simply could not shoot the Dan Wesson loads in that gun. It was out of the question to make the top strap thicker because then it would be as UGLY as a Dan Wesson! The solution was the "endurance package" of 1988 which worked pretty well, though you will still hear the ignorant and unaware saying that you must only shoot magnums occasionally in the M29. (Can anyone correct me here?)
I also heard that S&W hired a high-priced artist to design the grips on the third gen, the beautiful curvy checkering pattern on the Delrin grips. I really appreciate the design myself and it goes a long way to make the guns at least less ugly than the Glock. (Anyone know the story?)
I am of the opinion that Smith has finally learned to make their guns just as ugly as anybody's
Kind Regards!
BrianD
Aukula1062
Member
I concur! Blued and or alloy 3rd gens are hard to find. I love stainless 3rd gens but I want a bit of variety too. Love my 915 and 411! Smith & Wesson had done this before, anybody remember the model 28 Highway Patrolman? Exact same concept.
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The 915 is a great utility high-cap like the Model 28. Now with Mecgar newest mags it's now 17+1.
The straight back grip fits my hand almost like a HI Power.
The straight back grip fits my hand almost like a HI Power.
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