Was the "Value Series" the zenith of S&W metal frame pistols?

[Sevens]

But but but!!!!! BLUEDOT37 cheated!!!

He's got some kind of a TercGen style grip on his CS-9. The big gooey black marshmallow they shipped on these was universally abhorred. And the excellent grip that he shows on the photo was not an option. It had to be created.

I owned a CS-9 for a short time. I did not like it, I do not miss it.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I owned a CS-9 for a short time. I did not like it, I do not miss it.

Yup-Me too. The CS-9 grip frame and the two available magazine base plates did not produce a combo that I could hold successfully. My pinky was either partially falling off the frame with plain baseplate or smashed with the rest baseplate. A variant of the 391X with the 3" barrel would have been outstanding- it's grip length with the finger rest mag fits my hand like a glove.

 

[GerSan69]

Hmmm.... IMO the Value Series has the handling, operation and accuracy of the 3rd Gen pistols at a lower cost. Getting a 457 and later a 908 when I did (well after the years when I was buying pistols for work) has allowed me the luxury of comparing them head to head and I gotta tell ya, even with some plastic (Delrin?) parts, I don't feel like the Values are any less of a gun. All of them regardless of caliber are just a hoot and a half to put a few magazines through.

 

[4T5GUY]

Cheap, plain looking pistols.

Well like they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

I like hearing that so many don't like the CS's. Maybe that's why most of the ones I've found were so inexpensive.

Years ago a new vehicle that came with cheap factory rims/tires was serviceable but custom rims/tires could improve looks and handling. There was value in a base model. You could use that savings to improve that vehicle or not.

Jim

 

[Yendor357]

We've all seen businesses that made us think: "Man that place is going down hill."
And a month or 2 later they're out of business. That was the value series.

And with that something great died. Never to return.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Love my Value Line M411. Great shooter!

I make a distinction in my mind between the "American Pride Series", the 411 and the 915, and the "Value Series", the 410 and the 910 etc. If you own a 4006 don't bother getting the 411 or 410. If you own the 411, don't bother with the others. If you own the 410. get a couple of 11 round mags and be happy.

What makes one gun better than another is YOU. Your skill and fight are what counts. A gunfight is more fight than gun.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

 

[Landric]

My favorite S&W pistol is the 3913, so much to offer, so well made, so easy to carry. I recently acquired this nice NL example for under $500 all in. Great price now, but I remember when these guns couldn't be given away used at $300.

 

[Frank Black]

Should've included an obligatory pic of my M411 in my earlier post (#14).

Stumbled into it at the LGS in late 2019 before all the Pandem-panic b.s. It came with the original box, papers, and 3 mags. Finish was worn a bit on the frame near the muzzle, but the internals and the barrel were pristine. This gun was likely carried way more than it was ever shot. Pricing was fire-sale cheap as a "discontinued" gun.

 

[Michaelp57]

Berea gun show

They gave us value. Good guns that worked for people who were not Navy Seals or Green Berets, who wanted a reasonable basic firearm to defend their homes and learn marksmanship and firearm maintenance with. My first firearm was a S&W Model 915. I still have it, and bought another one. It was doorway to a new hobby leading to many handguns including S&W revolvers,
numerous rifles, shotguns and related activities and most importantly friends. A good investment of $250 at the Berea Ohio gun show all those years back. Thanks OPD Sharpshooter who talked me into the show and buying the Model 915.

I have spotted many 3rd gens at the berea gun show. Never for $250 though or I would have a lot more of them.

I know the OP has found the line of thinking he was looking for, but I would also include accessible, quality firearms in that. Something that smith and wesson still does well with the m&p series today.

 

[armorer951]

What did the "value" series provide that the "1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen base, TSW, and even the vaunted Performance Center models never achieved?"

A horrible external finish, and some plastic internal parts.



Carter

 

[scoobysnacker]

Along this line of thinking, I would say the 915 is worth mentioning. Unlike the later Value Line offerings, the 915 is a "pure" 3rd Gen internally. Blued steel slide and black anodized frame, without ambi safety or any asthetic cuts. Just a very clean gun. I have one with (now dead) night sights, and it's a very very good gun. Functionally the same as my 5906, but a lot lighter. Ain't nothing "cheap" about it, just inexpensive.

 

[JohnHL]

What did the "value" series provide that the "1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen base, TSW, and even the vaunted Performance Center models never achieved?"

A horrible external finish, and some plastic internal parts.



Carter

SUB-compacts, Carter.

SUB-compacts...

Making very short barreled, very light slide pistols run reliably on an incredibly wide variety of ammo types and weights is a much greater and much more difficult design, engineering, and manufacturing accomplishment than polishing steel or stamping out small metal parts.

But of course you knew that..

John

 

[armorer951]

No John, I didn't know that. I'm a police armorer, not an engineer.

In my tiny little mind, a plastic disconnector, or anything else created out of plastic, including something as critical as a disconnector, is a giant leap backward.


Carter

 

[JohnHL]

No John, I didn't know that. I'm a police armorer, not an engineer.

In my tiny little mind, a plastic disconnector, or anything else plastic, is a giant leap backward.


Carter

Well, I've followed your posts (with a great deal of admiration) for over 10 years, Carter.

You have a fantastic memory, an analytical mind, and a fine attention to detail.

That hardly is a "tiny little mind"!

Of course you remember the difficulty S&W had making the 645 (and then the 4506) run reliably on anything other than 230 gr. ball.

And when they tried to go compact with the 4516...

Oh, brother did they struggle.

New slide and barrel configurations.

Several different mag and follower combinations.

And again, that was with a compact pistol.

SUB-compacts are that much harder.

When Colt downsized the 1911 to Commander and then Officer sizes, they struggled to get them to run well on just ball ammo.

The "Value Series" team may be guilty of eschewing esthetics in favor of affordability, but they did something that none of their predecessors did, and that was make not only 45, but 40, and 9mm sub-compacts run reliably on a wide variety of ammo.

That is no mean feat.

John

 

[Rule3]

I have a 457 S The only value part is the sights (which are fine anyway) SS slide and guide rod,
Whats wrong with it?

Glocks have plastic sights

 

[4T5GUY]

What did the "value" series provide that the "1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen base, TSW, and even the vaunted Performance Center models never achieved?"

A horrible external finish, and some plastic internal parts.

Everyone agrees that the "black" finish on the "Value Line" is snastie cheap. Just doesn't hold up that well at all.

Unfortunately S&W used that finish even on their top of the line, expensive "premiere" PC's of the time.

I should have started another question thread. What did the "Value Line" AND the PC's of that time have in common? A very cheap and inexpensive finish.


Jim

 

[GaryS]

I run 124gr through my CS9 and it works great. I run 124gr or 147gr through all of my 39xx and 69xx guns and there is negligible difference in impact point. OTOH, they all shoot low with 115gr. Well, I don't recall shooting 115 through the CS9.

The only 3rd Gen I own that shoots 115gr well is my 5906. That beast just doesn't care what goes through it.

i've never shot anything other than 230gr through my 457s.

 

[mauser9]

Read here a while back the CS series was a value line gun but at the time S&W did not market it as such. Bought my stainless CS 9 back around 2000 which has proved reliable. Glad I got the stainless version after reading the black finish was not durable.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

What's in a name anyway

They definitely weren't as low priced as the "Value Series".

Maybe they just should have called them the "Better Than Value Series"?

.
2004 S&W Catalog pricing



.

 

[Sevens]

Egads. Flip out this image the next time someone says "but why don't they make them anymore?!"