Many questions on this SW hand ejector

[rct269]

The bottom line of all this is what you already said, "----------I'm pretty happy to add it."

That says it all, and that's all that counts.

And then, as usual, I'm compelled to utter a few words about the cautions of shooting +P ammo in it.

1. The best reason to stay away from + P is the price---can you say "rip-off"?

2. The next, and my favorite, is the +P hype doesn't track with FACTS!

Here's just one set:

The muzzle velocity of the 158 grain bullet load from 1925 is 858 feet per second. This from S&W's catalog of the time.

The muzzle velocity of today's 158 grain bullet load is 755 feet per second. This from the tables published in the Gun Digest.

Then there's the muzzle velocity of today's +P 158 grain bullet load some of the folks are cautioning you about using (also from the Gun Digest tables)----890 feet per second. I reckon you can see why they're concerned----or then again, maybe not.

I've wondered about the whys and wherefores of +P from time to time, and came up with this illustrative tale:

The scene is the conference room of any ammo manufacturer. The guy from the corner office is asking for input on how to increase the profit margin. A bright eyed, bushy tailed kid who doesn't yet know the first thing about the business sticks his hand up in the air, and waves it frantically----calling out "I KNOW---I KNOW!!"

Nobody laughs out loud, but there are more than a few stifled snickers from around the table. The Boss Man knows better than to shut the kid down, and gives him the go-ahead.

The Kid says, "How about this?!! We increase the loads back to about what they used to be, give them a catchy name, and charge more for them."

Nobody says a word----except for the Boss Man. He says, "I sure am glad I thought of that! How'd you like to have lunch with me in the Executive Dining Room, and we can talk more about it?"

The Kid was promoted to Executive Vice President a week later, and they all lived happily ever after---all except for those who snickered at him when he was waving his hand and hollering I KNOW--I KNOW. Those folks were tossed out on their butts by the new Executive Vice President.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[brittneysue]

I agree, the finish does not look nearly as weathered in this last photo...And the star is blued, and the hammer seems to be color case-hardened...I think it may have been originally nickeled from the factory...Can we see pics of both sides of the grip frame with the grips off?......Ben

What does case-hardened mean? Here's some more pictures.

 

[brittneysue]

The bottom line of all this is what you already said, "----------I'm pretty happy to add it."

That says it all, and that's all that counts.

And then, as usual, I'm compelled to utter a few words about the cautions of shooting +P ammo in it.

1. The best reason to stay away from + P is the price---can you say "rip-off"?

2. The next, and my favorite, is the +P hype doesn't track with FACTS!

Here's just one set:

The muzzle velocity of the 158 grain bullet load from 1925 is 858 feet per second. This from S&W's catalog of the time.

The muzzle velocity of today's 158 grain bullet load is 755 feet per second. This from the tables published in the Gun Digest.

Then there's the muzzle velocity of today's +P 158 grain bullet load some of the folks are cautioning you about using (also from the Gun Digest tables)----890 feet per second. I reckon you can see why they're concerned----or then again, maybe not.

I've wondered about the whys and wherefores of +P from time to time, and came up with this illustrative tale:

The scene is the conference room of any ammo manufacturer. The guy from the corner office is asking for input on how to increase the profit margin. A bright eyed, bushy tailed kid who doesn't yet know the first thing about the business sticks his hand up in the air, and waves it frantically----calling out "I KNOW---I KNOW!!"

Nobody laughs out loud, but there are more than a few stifled snickers from around the table. The Boss Man knows better than to shut the kid down, and gives him the go-ahead.

The Kid says, "How about this?!! We increase the loads back to about what they used to be, give them a catchy name, and charge more for them."

Nobody says a word----except for the Boss Man. He says, "I sure am glad I thought of that! How'd you like to have lunch with me in the Executive Dining Room, and we can talk more about it?"

The Kid was promoted to Executive Vice President a week later, and they all lived happily ever after---all except for those who snickered at him when he was waving his hand and hollering I KNOW--I KNOW. Those folks were tossed out on their butts by the new Executive Vice President.

Ralph Tremaine

Thank you for your reply! You are right, all that matters in the end is that I'm happy to have it. I do also find alot of fascination in all the things I've learned since I purchased it! Seems to be sort of a rabbit hole, lots and lots of interesting facts and history to learn, definitely been a fun few days, and I appreciate everyone's sharing of their own knowledge. Since we are on the subject of ammo, is there an issue with using less than 158 grain? Would 130 grain ammo be inappropriate to use with this gun? That's what we have at the house at the moment, but if I need to get something else I absolutely will. Thank you!

 

[glenwolde]

Thank you for your reply! You are right, all that matters in the end is that I'm happy to have it. I do also find alot of fascination in all the things I've learned since I purchased it! Seems to be sort of a rabbit hole, lots and lots of interesting facts and history to learn, definitely been a fun few days, and I appreciate everyone's sharing of their own knowledge. Since we are on the subject of ammo, is there an issue with using less than 158 grain? Would 130 grain ammo be inappropriate to use with this gun? That's what we have at the house at the moment, but if I need to get something else I absolutely will. Thank you!

130 gr ammo is fine but you may find that it shoots low. These guns were regulated for 158 gr, but yours has been cut so maybe not. You won't know until you shoot it.

 

[Muley Gil]

What does case-hardened mean? Here's some more pictures.

The hammer & trigger are hardened more or less skin deep. The mottled colors on these pieces are a result of this process.

 

[merl67]

Brittneysue welcome to the forum you have already gotten great information. Hang around this is simply the best site for all things Smith & Wesson. A word of warning though these things are worse than Lays potato chips starts out with one. Then you start seeing all the other neat ones around here pretty soon you've got a heard of em. All joking aside this site has saved me from making bad purchases, and helped me make some great ones. Really this is like a university of higher learning for all things Smith & Wesson.

 

[rct269]

Thank you for your reply! You are right, all that matters in the end is that I'm happy to have it. I do also find alot of fascination in all the things I've learned since I purchased it! Seems to be sort of a rabbit hole, lots and lots of interesting facts and history to learn, definitely been a fun few days, and I appreciate everyone's sharing of their own knowledge. Since we are on the subject of ammo, is there an issue with using less than 158 grain? Would 130 grain ammo be inappropriate to use with this gun? That's what we have at the house at the moment, but if I need to get something else I absolutely will. Thank you!

While I identified a load with only the bullet weight (158 grains), I did so because pretty much everybody who's been involved with this stuff for any length of time recognizes it as the stock, standard, everyday load for a .38 Special----that, and the 148 grain wadcutter. That said, I am not familiar with any loads using a 130 grain bullet---or any of the others besides the two I mentioned above. That's mostly because I'm old---and old fashioned---and haven't fired hardly any handguns since I joined the ranks of lunatic fringe collectors------a looooooooooooong time ago.

The most pleasant to shoot from a .38 Special are the wadcutters---also the most accurate.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Truckman]

What does case-hardened mean? Here's some more pictures.

Gil gave you a good basic description of the term...It's meant to harden the surface of the steel to forestall undue wear...The colors are just a bonus...More details here...

The picture below is not entirely clear, but it appears your far left sideplate screw is a buttonhead indicating the original grips would have been standard service grips which left this screw exposed...The use of Magnas or target grips of any kind would have caused the upper corner of the right grip panel to protrude slightly and possibly weaken the grip material...This can be remedied by either machining a small indention with a drillpoint in the grip where the screwhead makes contact, or just replacing the screw with a flathead design......Ben

 

[brittneysue]

130 gr ammo is fine but you may find that it shoots low. These guns were regulated for 158 gr, but yours has been cut so maybe not. You won't know until you shoot it.

I did wonder about how it will shoot since most of the videos I've seen of them have been with longer barrels, but I will be taking her out just a couple of weeks now that the range I like it back open. I'll update sometime, we will see how it goes.

 

[brittneysue]

Brittneysue welcome to the forum you have already gotten great information. Hang around this is simply the best site for all things Smith & Wesson. A word of warning though these things are worse than Lays potato chips starts out with one. Then you start seeing all the other neat ones around here pretty soon you've got a heard of em. All joking aside this site has saved me from making bad purchases, and helped me make some great ones. Really this is like a university of higher learning for all things Smith & Wesson.

Thank you, I will definitely be sticking around, I have enjoyed reading everything and learning new stuff, and to be honest, I have already began looking at other revolvers and even books, as I have found it all to be pretty fascinating. I don't doubt I'll add more! Luckily, now I know I can run here and get second opinions the next time I find something I like. My other half and I have a pretty long standing joke of finding any reason to get a new gun, and I am all for adding a few nicer revolvers to my ever evolving collection. Plus, we have a son, and he drives me the most to learn things. He is not quite at the point of appreciating and being able to learn much, but I can't wait until hes older and we can pass along some of the interesting things we have learned. Speaking of, any books that are the best for learning about all these Smith and Wessons? Much appreciated!

 

[brittneysue]

While I identified a load with only the bullet weight (158 grains), I did so because pretty much everybody who's been involved with this stuff for any length of time recognizes it as the stock, standard, everyday load for a .38 Special----that, and the 148 grain wadcutter. That said, I am not familiar with any loads using a 130 grain bullet---or any of the others besides the two I mentioned above. That's mostly because I'm old---and old fashioned---and haven't fired hardly any handguns since I joined the ranks of lunatic fringe collectors------a looooooooooooong time ago.

The most pleasant to shoot from a .38 Special are the wadcutters---also the most accurate.

Ralph Tremaine

Thank you for that info, I'll go ahead and seek out some wadcutters.

 

[brittneysue]

The hammer & trigger are hardened more or less skin deep. The mottled colors on these pieces are a result of this process.

Oh, got ya, thank you!

 

[brittneysue]

Gil gave you a good basic description of the term...It's meant to harden the surface of the steel to forestall undue wear...The colors are just a bonus...More details here...

The picture below is not entirely clear, but it appears your far left sideplate screw is a buttonhead indicating the original grips would have been standard service grips which left this screw exposed...The use of Magnas or target grips of any kind would have caused the upper corner of the right grip panel to protrude slightly and possibly weaken the grip material...This can be remedied by either machining a small indention with a drillpoint in the grip where the screwhead makes contact, or just replacing the screw with a flathead design......Ben

It does in fact warp out right in that spot, and I was not exactly sure why, and it's now funny to me how obvious the reason is. I will go ahead and fix that. I will also check out that link you shared and read up on the case hardening, thank you!

 

[Retired W4]

Let's see how fast I can type this. The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Edition. You might want to hold off a bit as the 5th Ed. should come out soon.

 

[glenwolde]

Thank you for that info, I'll go ahead and seek out some wadcutters.

Those may be hard to find these days. They are available online. Wadcutters are an odd looking round to most people. The bullet is a cylinder and is completely seated within the case. The design has a focus on accuracy and little else.

 

[Retired W4]

I would also recommend Charles Pate's U.S. Handguns of World War II, The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers. Great reference book that has some very in-depth information on S&W revolvers of that time period.

 

[Truckman]

Speaking of, any books that are the best for learning about all these Smith and Wessons? Much appreciated!

These are all within easy reach at my desk......Ben

 

[Heinz]

The marks next to CTG in the original post look somewhat like a crown N, a German imperial/Weimar proof mark. That could be a fun gun to own with a puzzling history.

 

[mikepriwer]

The gun was shipped sometime in 1919 or 1920. The stocks on the gun are the Magna design, and were not available until the 1930's. The screw heads on the gun are all correct, so I would not replace the far-left screw with a flat-top one.

I assume that the serial number on the butt, flat under the barrel, and rear face of the cylinder all agree ?

Mike Priwer

 

[rct269]

Those may be hard to find these days. They are available online. Wadcutters are an odd looking round to most people. The bullet is a cylinder and is completely seated within the case. The design has a focus on accuracy and little else.

This responder makes an interesting, and perhaps controversial point: "The design has a focus on accuracy and little else."

There are those of us, in yet another department of the "lunatic fringe" besides collectors, who focus on accuracy---and little else. I was one of those-----a loooooooooooong time ago, when I took up handloading. My objective, my ONLY objective was accuracy---out to 50 yards---because that's the greatest distance encountered in what was called Bullseye competition.

Job one was to make ammo more accurate than factory. That was accomplished in short order, and I found myself moving on from there to better yet.

So what's "better yet"? I eventually decided there's two different definitions of accuracy----practical accuracy and ultimate accuracy. We often see examples of practical accuracy here when folks proudly post pictures of their groups fired at ranges all the way up to 10-15 yards. The groups look like they were made with a shotgun, but they're all on the paper----practical accuracy.

The groups we don't often see are ragged one hole examples out to 50 yards---ultimate accuracy.

I wasn't able to shoot those ragged one hole groups standing on my hind legs, and holding the gun with one hand; so I cheated--and got one of those then new Ransom Machine Rests. Then I bolted a K-38 to it, and BEHOLD------ragged one hole groups!! WELL!! If the gun can do it, so can I------some times---on some days----every now and then.

Given there are different strokes for different folks, practical accuracy is all well and good, but the bottom line is there are shooters----and there are people who shoot. Pick one, and be happy---but know it takes a while to become a shooter.

That was then, and now is now. Now I can shoot with ultimate accuracy with scope sighted rifles from a bench rest----and it hasn't been all that long ago that I had David Carroll sell all my rifles---all except one---and I haven't fired that one for quite a spell.

Ralph Tremaine