Knocking around on line the other night, I found some references to the above cartridge. Most references said it was mostly a European round and never used in the US. Some said it was just what it said, a stretched version of the 38 S&W. Others said it was similar to and somewhere in length between the 38 Long Colt and the 38 Special. Another source said it was virtually identical to the 38 Special. One source said S&W once made revolvers chambered for this cartridge. Any additional information or clarification would be much appreciated.
38 S&W Long Cartridge
- Thread starter erikpolcrack
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DWalt
Member
It is discussed here.
38 Long inside primed - General Ammunition Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum
The interpretation is that during the early 20th Century, some European cartridge loaders produced .38 cartridges with variable case lengths between .38 Long Colt and .38 Special. And they often had headstamps that for some unknown reason included "S&W." Why they did that is not known. End of story.
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I purchased a case of Fiocchi made ammo some years ago for our gunshop that was labelled "Cal. 380 Lungo". This was purchased from Fiocchi USA (mainly to pad out an order) and IIRC, the listing described it as 38 Long Revolver (not 380ACP) possibly due to confusion by buyers.
It is basically a 38 Long Colt round dimensionally and was in the typical Fiocchi 25 rd boxes seen in 1960's and 1970's production. Since then I have run across a couple similar rounds with S&W in the headstamp but measuring the same as a Colt round. I haven't found any of those described by the one poster in the IAA link above that had the same case diameter as a regular 38 S&W round.......... Something else to look for for my individual cartridge collection I guess!
It is basically a 38 Long Colt round dimensionally and was in the typical Fiocchi 25 rd boxes seen in 1960's and 1970's production. Since then I have run across a couple similar rounds with S&W in the headstamp but measuring the same as a Colt round. I haven't found any of those described by the one poster in the IAA link above that had the same case diameter as a regular 38 S&W round.......... Something else to look for for my individual cartridge collection I guess!
Alk8944
US Veteran
Note that the description of the .38 S&W Long indicates it is inside primed. This means it is a true "balloon head" aka "Folded Head"cartridge case as current .22 rim-fires are! The primer is inside the case and supported by an internal anvil. These cases are not re-loadable! It has no resemblance to .38 S&W whatsoever except nominal caliber.
There are basically three types of cartridge cases, balloon head, Semi-balloon head aka original solid head, and current type solid head. What are currently referred to as "balloon head" cases, with the primer pocket protruding into the interior of the case, were originally called "solid head" to distinguish them from true balloon head cases which, as said earlier, like rim-fire cases. The earlier original type cases often include the letters SH within the head-stamp to distinguish the ammunition from true balloon head as they were basically indistinguishable from the outside.
The true balloon head/inside primed cases and were the only ones that had a tendency to "blow out" the rim as do rim-fires occasionally still do! The original/old-style solid head cases, again incorrectly often referred to as Balloon-head, do not blow out any more than the modern type of solid-head cases do, which is never! If there is a blow-out with a modern solid-head case it occurs on the case body, ahead of the solid-head!
There are basically three types of cartridge cases, balloon head, Semi-balloon head aka original solid head, and current type solid head. What are currently referred to as "balloon head" cases, with the primer pocket protruding into the interior of the case, were originally called "solid head" to distinguish them from true balloon head cases which, as said earlier, like rim-fire cases. The earlier original type cases often include the letters SH within the head-stamp to distinguish the ammunition from true balloon head as they were basically indistinguishable from the outside.
The true balloon head/inside primed cases and were the only ones that had a tendency to "blow out" the rim as do rim-fires occasionally still do! The original/old-style solid head cases, again incorrectly often referred to as Balloon-head, do not blow out any more than the modern type of solid-head cases do, which is never! If there is a blow-out with a modern solid-head case it occurs on the case body, ahead of the solid-head!
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According to Barnes book, the 38 Long was a rimfire cartridge, dating back to 1865. This cartridge was used in the US and the Remington Beals rifle which shot this cartridge as early as 1867. Remington also produced a revolver that used this caliber. It had a heeled 150 grain bullet and was loaded with 18 grains of BP. An 1881 US Cartridge Catalog lists other US manufacturers who used this cartridge.
S&W never made a revolver in that rimfire caliber, but made US Military revolvers that were chambered only in 38 Long Colt centerfire caliber. The Model 1899 38 Military US Army and US Navy revolvers were chambered in 38 Long Colt and original guns would not chamber 38 Special, but many were re-chambered in later years to accommodate 38 SP caliber.
S&W never made a revolver in that rimfire caliber, but made US Military revolvers that were chambered only in 38 Long Colt centerfire caliber. The Model 1899 38 Military US Army and US Navy revolvers were chambered in 38 Long Colt and original guns would not chamber 38 Special, but many were re-chambered in later years to accommodate 38 SP caliber.
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