1917 45 Colt Target

[rct269]

My inquiry has to do with the extra machining on POST WAR K frame barrels---K-22 Masterpiece barrels in particular (and whatever other Masterpiece caliber barrels may have been fitted with LERK's) in order to fit the LERK.

Plain as mud??

Ralph Tremaine

 

[hkcavalier]

Parkwater is located in the railroad area around Trent and Fancher. It was primarily one of the larger railroad switching areas. It still carries the Parkwater designation for railroad purposes, it is probably encompassed in the greater Spokane Valley location today. If you're wondering the Valley separated from the city years ago, they got away with contracting quite a large portion of police work out to the Sheriff's department, they have their own Fire districts.

That's good info. My grandfather was a Burlington Northern worker most of his adult life, back when Hillyard was full of railroad employees. Dad went aerospace, left the area, and never came back. It's only fitting that I did, though not to Spokane proper, and having nothing to do with the now-BNSF railroad.

That area should be the NW corner of the Spokane Valley city limits, no?

 

[Hondo44]

My inquiry has to do with the extra machining on POST WAR K frame barrels---K-22 Masterpiece barrels in particular (and whatever other Masterpiece caliber barrels may have been fitted with LERK's) in order to fit the LERK.

Plain as mud??

Ralph Tremaine

Clear as a bell. We also see early post war I frames with barrel knobs. And a smaller number (.38/32 only) with nickel plated extractor rods and barrel knobs of all things! Even Roy could not shed any reasoning for those although he was well aware of them.

 

[spin132]

She's beautiful Jeff, congrats!

Mike

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[DCWilson]

ADDED two days later: Apologies, photographs will be delayed.



Very nice revolver. Is the replacement sight package stamped Micro, by any chance? The rear component has the same profile as the sights on a modified .455/Second that I picked up on a whim about 15 years ago. The front sight is a kind of graceless slab, but it could be cut to resemble the one on Jeff's 1917. Converting the .455 to.45 Colt involved planing the recoil shield. The caliber marking ".455 SW" is placed above and to the right of the original S&W 45 DA rollmark. The rear sight is stamped Micro.

After WWII the King Gunsight Company was stumbling, and some its staff left to found Micro (April 1947, according to a post in the archives). The date on the conversion invoice in the top post is, I believe, August 19, 1949, so Micro sights would have been available from the new startup. I don't know the date of the conversion on my gun, but now that I know S&W would do these conversions, I need to ask the SWHF for a document search.

I no longer have the photos I posted back in 2010, but will try to take more tomorrow and add them to this post. I will also put them in my old thread, which you can see here if interested.

.455 HE/Second modified for target shooting

 

[rct269]

Clear as a bell. We also see early post war I frames with barrel knobs. And a smaller number with nickel plated extractor rods and barrel knobs of all things! Even Roy could not shed any reasoning for those although he was well aware of them.

It's possible I can identify the reason---but the reasoning behind the reason defies reason-------------in some, but not necessarily all cases.

The reason for the use of LERKS on guns not designed for them is the seemingly blind adherence to the policy of using up the old before moving on with the new. In this case it was necessary to perform additional machining on post war barrels in order to use leftover pre-war ejector rods. Now that's an opinion supported by absolutely no factual knowledge whatsoever (the costs of the extra machining vs. the value of the obsolete ejector rods)----it's just the principal of the thing. I became irritated with the LERK thing primarily because of an earlier example of the same sort of nonsense---this time with a rear sight---the Large Screw Spring Up sight---to be S&W's very first that wouldn't shoot loose-----------------IF they could execute the design----which they could not, save for an estimated one sight out of three produced----and USED---never mind two thirds of them were no damn good!!

Now never mind they couldn't execute the design, they went right ahead and made what turned out to be a TWELVE YEAR supply of these sights-----and made no effort to move on until the supply diminished. It's perhaps noteworthy that during this period the production/sales of target guns diminished from the estimated total of 10% of total to 2% of total. I dare say the benefits to S&W to be derived from the successes of shooters using S&W products diminished right along with it. Really, REALLY DUMB!! And we're probably not supposed to talk about the additional NINE years that passed before they came up with an effective sight. Let's see now, 12 plus 9 equals 21 years in limbo when it comes to GOOD target guns---not counting the years preceding these.(!!)

What's wrong with this picture?!!

Ralph Tremaine

As an aside, in view of the supposition some bright soul would ask, S&W supposed the pressure bearing on a elevated sight carrier bearing on the elevation adjusting screw would prevent shooting loose---a reasonable supposition right from the get-go---and works fine with .22's---not so well as one moves on up to bigger holes!

The tang of an elevated sight carrier on a NM #3 (the first with adjustable sights) bears against the barrel catch cam and its very stout little spring----and may very well have diminished/eliminated shooting loose----depending on the amount of elevation---some's good, more's better, and a WHOLE BUNCH probably worked like a charm! Fast forward to the configuration of the sight on a pre-war hand ejector: Elevating the sight carrier puts pressure on the tang. It was supposed that pressure (bearing against the elevation adjusting screw) would prevent shooting loose---a reasonable supposition---didn't work out like that. It wasn't until the early 30's (the "two screw" sight) that S&W had a sight that absolutely, positively would not shoot loose----IF/WHEN it was properly adjusted and locked----which is to say when the shooter followed the instructions. Given my experience with today's shooters using the "two screw" sight, there's a bunch of them that have decided they know how to use that sight----having never read the instructions---and they ain't even close!!

 

[22hipower]

Very nice revolver. Is the replacement sight package stamped Micro, by any chance? The rear component has the same profile as the sights on a modified .455/Second that I picked up on a whim about 15 years ago. The front sight is a kind of graceless slab, but it could be cut to resemble the one on Jeff's 1917. Converting the .455 to.45 Colt involved planing the recoil shield. The caliber marking ".455 SW" is placed above and to the right of the original S&W 45 DA rollmark. The rear sight is stamped Micro.

After WWII the King Gunsight Company was stumbling, and some its staff left to found Micro (April 1947, according to a post in the archives). The date on the conversion invoice in the top post is, I believe, August 19, 1949, so Micro sights would have been available from the new startup. I don't know the date of the conversion on my gun, but now that I know S&W would do these conversions, I need to ask the SWHF for a document search.

There is nothing stamped on the front or rear sights. The rear sight appears identical, except the base is slightly shorter, to the rear sight on my K38 Masterpiece from 1949/1950.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[chiefdave]

ALL 1917 barrels are marked just like this one- S. & W. DA 45
The barrels for the last run of 1917s after WW II must have had recently made barrels because they were not cut for the mushroom knob.
So, what parts were they trying to use up? My best guess is that they had about a thousand 45 cylinders they wanted to turn into money.

My 1917 shipped 10/1918 was reworked 11/54 and still has the mushroom knob even though the barrel was replaced. Hard to figure out the S&W repair process.

 

[T44spl]

My 1917 shipped 10/1918 was reworked 11/54 and still has the mushroom knob even though the barrel was replaced. Hard to figure out the S&W repair process.

If the original configuration of your gun was with the mushroom style ejector knob & the barrel was replaced at the factory then I have to believe either S&W had a barrel in stock with the cut for the LERK or the barrel was re-machined to accomodate your ejector rod. Those are the possibilities & I would imagine it's the decision of the supervising gunsmith of the shop when your gun lands on the work bench.

 

[afkirby]

Reminds me a lot of the heritage models from the early 2000’s, an odd mix of old & new.

Kirby

 

[Kinman]

That's good info. My grandfather was a Burlington Northern worker most of his adult life, back when Hillyard was full of railroad employees. Dad went aerospace, left the area, and never came back. It's only fitting that I did, though not to Spokane proper, and having nothing to do with the now-BNSF railroad.

That area should be the NW corner of the Spokane Valley city limits, no?

You got your positioning correct, pretty close to on the line. I think they drew the East-West line at Havana, long held as the Eastern most city limits. Back in the Seventies when I started driving city bus our zone fares used to start at Havana, inside there was no zone fare, once outside city limits the zones fare went up a nickel past Havana, then Park another nickel, Pines and finally at Sullivan, turn around was at Barker. Fail to come up with the zone fare was a free trip back to town on my bus.

 

[Muley Gil]

I prefer: mushroom head ejector rod, barrel shaped head ejector rod and straight ejector rod.

 

[RKmesa]

Jeff:

That is a GREAT gun!!! I love the very tasteful modifications, including the wind-sail front sight.