old school

[cracker57]

I guess I am just and old fart who is old school. When I see post about peoples EDC and they are saying "here's my EDC its a xyz with a 2000 lume light under and a xyz red dot on top" my first thought is wheres the bayonet.
I am old school and even with my aging bad eyes my iron sights seem to do ok at defensive distances. I don't want a light on my gun, but I do carry one. I don't shoot any farther than 25 yrds. I don't need the extra weight or size to CC.
that's how this old timer rolls.

 

[stansdds]

I've not seen the need for a laser, flashlight, or red dot on my carry handguns. Extra weight, extra complexity, and extra things to fail when most needed. Oh, yes, aging eyes, I have them too, but even though I usually practice at 25 yards, a defensive situation is more likely to be at a distance and speed at which I may never even see or need the sights. I'm a civilian, not military or LEO.

 

[petepeterson]

I don't begrudge anyone that wants to carry the extra weight, or take the time to learn and practice with all those gizmos.

It's just not for me. Night sights are about as luxurious as I get.

 

[6string]

I have taken notice of the number of folks at the range who have lasers and small reflex red dot sights on their carry guns.

Fine, that's there choice.

Two observations:
1) Battery failures are common at the range. I see it multiple times a week.
2) Watching the lasers track on the target (not to mention anywhere and everywhere else!) gives me a cringe worthy view of just how incredibly bad many of these folks are with their trigger control and follow-through. Yikes, can you say "Flinch"?

Seriously. These folks need to get themselves a decent full-size .22 and start working on their marksmanship fundamentals!

If you can't shoot, all the gadgets in the world won't help you.

 

[jem102]

Everything I read still tells me the 3-5 rule dominates civilian close encounters of the deadly kind. As all have said, if you want to hang all that stuff on your gun go for it. Seems to complicate shorts and a T shirt now doesn't it...

 

[cmansguns]

Natural evolution I suppose

Serving in US Army as MOS 11Bravo20 (Light Weapons Infantryman) in the mid 1960's humping a M14 Rifle, sometimes a 1911A1 gave me a decent appreciation for the generation before me, humping M1 Garand's and 1903-A3 Springfields.

I left Uncle Sam prior to M16 but can still appreciate those "up grades", maybe even going so far as to say that today's GI has a better combat load-out than my generation ever dreamed of. Commo gizmos, helmet cams, every GI has a pistol sidearm, night sights, on board scopes, better flak protection, etc.

Realizing this thread is not about military, rather CC, I admit to going light, going clean as possibly so Model 36 in leather, later Model 60, then a 637 for +P duty, THEN aging out to M&P, plastic 2.0 Compact in 9mm, SafariLand Kydex GLS. Still light weight, more rounds, doesn't print too bad, don't care if its confiscated and yea..practice now at shorter distances.

Bottom line? Appreciate military people and their carry choices, my own are "downsized" like pretty much everything else in life.

 

[mikerjf]

Having a light on the Glock means that when there’s a bump in the night I don’t have to wonder where my wife moved the flashlight “just for now”.

 

[T-STAR]

I question how many of these people actually "every day carry" their tricked out handguns. Especially after seeing so many posts about not being able to conceal a K frame or a commander.

 

[Truckman]

The most weight and bulk I tolerate on my hip is a 3 1/2" .38/44...Most of the time it's my 2" prewar M&P...Both in a variety of leather belt holsters...If I sense danger from beyond 7 or so yards, I'll duck and cover...If I'm attacked, whether night or day, and if I'm still conscious, I'll have a pretty good idea in which direction I should face to return fire, so I don't carry a flashlight......Ben

 

[hardluk1]

My EDC is a lw commander in 45 as my primary carry but have a m&p 4.25 40sw as a big city / road trip carry . Size and weight are also very close to the same . Sights are a gold dot on the 1911 and a yellow tester painted dot on the m&p . I do wear trifocal's so accurate handgun shooting does require a dot optic now but one day I may need a pistol with dot optic on it as a carry option but at 68 now . I do have a m&p compact 4" 9mm with a green circle dot I practice with some now. Practice is easy as we have a handgun range at home .

I like dot optics for short range needs like well hunting and have add one and a replacement after 20 years to my 8" DW revolver since 1990 when I first noticed I needed glasses ! . Its a 2moa ultra dot tube type optic on a beuhler 1" scope mount and it is great for hitting where you want a bullet to go for hog and deer out to close to 100 yards for my longest shot's hunting . That was many many years ago . My ole DW revolver wears it's 4" barrel and shroud plus its stock adjustable sights today !

I have carried and practiced with a hand held light for the 37 years I have CC'd and learn to shot with a handheld light thanks to some older deputy's I hunted with before rails were added to handguns . I also have little faith in night sights as once its dark enough to see those tritium inserts you find you need a light too just to be sure you have a threat not just a regular person and at than point black sights show up well when you have your light on . All that is assuming you use a threat focused shooting style like flash sight picture or a variation of it . As the years go but 15 yards with no sights picture should be normal and only slight glance at 25 yards but more of a look across the sights at 40sw for me . Now this is A zone hits with open sights not target shooting .

Now around the home we do have a good gun/green laser on our carbine's .

 

[Bastogne71]

I totally agree with stansdds. I don’t want all that stuff adding weight, bulk, and cost to my defensive firearms especially since it is of limited utility in short range defensive situations. All I want on my nightstand guns are night sights.

 

[haywood]

My guns are stock. I paint the front sight to pick it up better. I add grips where needed. That’s it. My house is never too dark to identify who may be in it. Just in case, I keep a flashlight handy always but never on the gun. If I need a light I hold it away from my body in case a shot was fired at the light. I don’t even want laser grips. I’m afraid I would waste time looking for the dot and get shot in the meantime. I’ll stay old-school with a plain old gun.

 

[brian686]

I'm on the PSA page on Facebook and I can't get over people buying $300 guns and putting $800 of extras on them.
I agree on the lasers. How do you get the laser point to stay on target when you finally press the trigger? Doesn't seem to be an issue when you don't have one. Always makes me nervous when someone around me has one and you see the dot all over the place.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I guess I am just and old fart who is old school. When I see post about peoples EDC and they are saying "here's my EDC its a xyz with a 2000 lume light under and a xyz red dot on top" my first thought is wheres the bayonet.
I am old school and even with my aging bad eyes my iron sights seem to do ok at defensive distances. I don't want a light on my gun, but I do carry one. I don't shoot any farther than 25 yrds. I don't need the extra weight or size to CC.
that's how this old timer rolls.

I'm in my early 40s and came of age as a gun owner during the Clinton AWB. I did fifteen years as a cop in Florida, including half my career in South Florida. I fully appreciate modern advancements.

Microcompact lightweight 9mm pistols with higher magazine capacities than duty guns of old and the ability to mount a RDS and a WML.

But since I've hanged up the badge. I carry stuff like this.

There's just something about a 3" stainless double-action six-shooter chambered in .357 Magnum and equipped with fixed sights.

It is just revolver perfection to me. Perfect size for a fightin' wheel gun. It screams all business and just fits the hand perfectly, carries perfectly, and more importantly.... IT SHOOTS PERFECTLY!

Yes, I know that a 3" .357 Magnum is viewed an on outdated firearm. But it isn't the arrow, it is the indian. At no point with advancement, has the lethality and capability of the revolver diminish. All that has happened is that other platforms have advanced.

 

[Krogen]

I have a Sig P320 with a red dot sight and an H&K VP40 with a light. My goal was to evaluate for myself if there was any benefit. They were quickly relegated to range toy status - for me anyway. For a carry pistol, I want small and simple with "adequate" firepower. My Sig P365 fits the bill. Easily carried and if I ever need to, it's draw, pull, bang. No thumb safety to forget about and 11 shots to save my hide. Any of the fiddly bits to get in the way would just compromise my odds.

 

[Bourbonieer]

I think some of this is social media advertising. Gun and accessory companies are playing YouTube and Instagram gunners to promote their products. In turn, the shills have to constantly stay relevant to keep the clicks up. Gear videos do better in any hobby market than how-to videos. The photography market is loaded with lens and camera reviews and the super valuable how-to videos don’t get as much traffic. Same for the firearms market.

Is an RDS valuable? 100%. Does it have a place? Absolutely. Is that place on a cc pistol? Up for debate, and mostly user subjective, but I’d say no. I have voiced concerns with them and most tacticools just ignore the concerns. 1) while they’re great for sighting and having a more open field of view, what do you do when that giant sight gets filled with dirt or snow? Now you can’t see anything. I’ve used the XS Big Dot, and frankly, it’s pretty good combat pistol sighting system. The striking on HD and similar copies are also great.
2) why do we need to carry a Surefire x300 Ultra on a concealed carry gun? Again, subjective, but it’s not a necessary item of bulk and weight. A handheld that uses a AA or 14500 is a fantastic choice. I carry a Fenix LD12, the upgraded version that hits 300lm with a 14500. Great light and the size is perfect t.
3) And do we really need 47 million rounds in a concealed carry package? 8 rounds in the gun statistically and you’ll never reload. I’m more than content with a Shield loaded with 8 and a spare 8 in case the main mag breaks. The main reason to carry a spare mag is not for extra rounds, that’s a byproduct, it’s to fix a malfunctioned semi-auto.

I think there’s a lot of anecdotal “I knew this one guy” mentality that lives in the firearms community. Tactical, hunting, competitive, it’s there. People don’t really consider what kind of threat profile they live in. The chances of actually using a concealed weapon are slim to almost none. Sure, higher in some areas than others, but overall we carry guns for peace of mind and that’s about as far as it goes. Doesn’t mean you shouldn't be good or take it seriously, but there’s nothing wrong with being practical. I used to be in the tacticool camp. Then one day I assessed all the stupid stuff I was toting around and it reminded me of my duty belt. No thanks.

 

[petepeterson]

Serving in US Army as MOS 11Bravo20 (Light Weapons Infantryman) in the mid 1960's humping a M14 Rifle, sometimes a 1911A1 gave me a decent appreciation for the generation before me, humping M1 Garand's and 1903-A3 Springfields.

I left Uncle Sam prior to M16 but can still appreciate those "up grades", maybe even going so far as to say that today's GI has a better combat load-out than my generation ever dreamed of. Commo gizmos, helmet cams, every GI has a pistol sidearm, night sights, on board scopes, better flak protection, etc.

Realizing this thread is not about military, rather CC, I admit to going light, going clean as possibly so Model 36 in leather, later Model 60, then a 637 for +P duty, THEN aging out to M&P, plastic 2.0 Compact in 9mm, SafariLand Kydex GLS. Still light weight, more rounds, doesn't print too bad, don't care if its confiscated and yea..practice now at shorter distances.

Bottom line? Appreciate military people and their carry choices, my own are "downsized" like pretty much everything else in life.

A like just for the pics!

 

[WR Moore]

Let me preface this with the fact that I lugged guns about for over 30 years professionally. Accumulated multiple instructor certs. I'm retired now, back when I was working some of those gadgets had a place. Fewer do now.

Outside of specialized need, the gadgets do what they've always done: make people think that having that magic widget(s) eliminates any need to get competent instruction, practice or exert much effort. Plus, there's the tacticool/tactikewl factor. And, a whiff of fantasy enablement. (Kinda like the cat stalking the livestock. The lion/leopard stalks the zebra herd.)

I'm at an age where iron sights can be an issue, depending upon situation. I've got one RDS equipped slide assembly and while it solves the sight picture/threat verification issue it presents other problems. It's kinda wink, wink, nudge, nudge concealable.

When one starts seeing micro pistols with lights & optics, it's ..... a sales gimmick. You've increased the size of the item you're trying to conceal and, well there's only so much slide room for the widgets and your hand. This can be a safety issue. As is the reduced amount of gun that can fit in a holster.

Gun mounted lights started as a way for counter terrorist assault teams to verify threats. That doesn't seem like a private citizen task. You're searching your home? Turn on the lights.

 

[Rat458]

When I first started carrying a Charter Bulldog was my choice since I hunted with 44 pistols.
Just kept the ammo stock easy.
After QC issues I switched to a Colt Mustang.
That served me for about 20 years.
Never felt a need for more.
Had ammo issues with that one so started carrying a SIG 320 SC.
Originally came with a rail and square trigger guard,found a non railed grip with a rounded trigger guard.
Much easier to carry .
Tried a red dot on my full size 45 and just could not get used to it.
Ill just stick to KISS for my EDC.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I think some of this is social media advertising. Gun and accessory companies are playing YouTube and Instagram gunners to promote their products. In turn, the shills have to constantly stay relevant to keep the clicks up. Gear videos do better in any hobby market than how-to videos. The photography market is loaded with lens and camera reviews and the super valuable how-to videos don’t get as much traffic. Same for the firearms market.

Is an RDS valuable? 100%. Does it have a place? Absolutely. Is that place on a cc pistol? Up for debate, and mostly user subjective, but I’d say no. I have voiced concerns with them and most tacticools just ignore the concerns. 1) while they’re great for sighting and having a more open field of view, what do you do when that giant sight gets filled with dirt or snow? Now you can’t see anything. I’ve used the XS Big Dot, and frankly, it’s pretty good combat pistol sighting system. The striking on HD and similar copies are also great.
2) why do we need to carry a Surefire x300 Ultra on a concealed carry gun? Again, subjective, but it’s not a necessary item of bulk and weight. A handheld that uses a AA or 14500 is a fantastic choice. I carry a Fenix LD12, the upgraded version that hits 300lm with a 14500. Great light and the size is perfect t.
3) And do we really need 47 million rounds in a concealed carry package? 8 rounds in the gun statistically and you’ll never reload. I’m more than content with a Shield loaded with 8 and a spare 8 in case the main mag breaks. The main reason to carry a spare mag is not for extra rounds, that’s a byproduct, it’s to fix a malfunctioned semi-auto.

I think there’s a lot of anecdotal “I knew this one guy” mentality that lives in the firearms community. Tactical, hunting, competitive, it’s there. People don’t really consider what kind of threat profile they live in. The chances of actually using a concealed weapon are slim to almost none. Sure, higher in some areas than others, but overall we carry guns for peace of mind and that’s about as far as it goes. Doesn’t mean you shouldn't be good or take it seriously, but there’s nothing wrong with being practical. I used to be in the tacticool camp. Then one day I assessed all the stupid stuff I was toting around and it reminded me of my duty belt. No thanks.

"Sell the sizzle, not the steak."

The gun industry always has to promote something new. Guns are a product for the most part that are a one-time purchase item. Your average consumer doesn't wear out a gun in their lifetime. So, the industry comes up with new gizmos and knickknacks to sell.