Legend has it that Elmer Keith blew up more than one pistol in developing the .357mag round.
I bet he said some adult words afterwards...............
I bet he said some adult words afterwards...............
Why is it called the .357 Magnum? UPDATED 05OCT24 Best(?) answer #31
- Thread starter RM Vivas
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.455_Hunter
Member
Johnny Dangerously...Now what did I do with that DVD?......Ben
Yup- I toned-down the quote for the censors...
Dig Dan Wesson up and ask him.
Legend has it that Elmer Keith blew up more than one pistol in developing the .357mag round.
I bet he said some adult words afterwards...............
I suspect legend has become a bit confused with the passage of time. Philip B. Sharpe is the gentleman S&W credits with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge --------and he didn't blow up any guns. He did scare the pants off of Doug Wesson with some of his experiments along the way, but Wesson survived, as did the 38-44 Outdoorsman given to Sharpe as a test bed. Later on, when the patting on the back was in progress, Wesson gave Sharpe another gun----Registered Magnum #2.
Actually, Sharpe was the recipient of more than a few gifted guns. One of them was a 22/40 that lived here for quite a spell. I didn't know the first thing about all that when I bought it, not until the letter arrived. The Boss Lady says I was in need of some calming medicine when that showed up!
Ralph Tremaine
"I'm not an expert, but I know who the experts are."
Remember...An Ex is a has been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure!
Actually, an expert is anybody who's more than about 50 miles away from home!
Ralph Tremaine
StrawHat
Member
I believe Phil Sharpe suggested the name 38 Special Magnum, or something similar.
Kevin
Kevin
38 Special Magnum is correct---as are a couple others: 38 Special Experimental, and 38 Sharpe Magnum. All these are shown as labels on photos of entrance and exit holes in bars of soap.
Surprisingly enough, Sharpe was also fooling with a 44 Sharpe Magnum----just a little ahead of time------and making A LOT bigger holes!!
Ralph Tremaine
Echo40
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It was namely to diversify the new cartridge from a litany of other cartridges dubbed as .38cal, despite the fact that they were all actually .35, .36, or even .40cal in the case of .38-40.
.38 Short Colt
.38 Long Colt
.38-40
.38 S&W
.38 Special
.38 ACP
.380 ACP
.38 Super
The list goes on and on...
.357 Magnum was named to more accurately represent the diameter of the projectile, breaking away from an old, outdated naming convention which was formerly accurate when applied to old heeled bullets, but had since been inaccurately applied to several other cartridges for no better reason than marketability.
Ultimately, I believe it was a good call, as I doubt the ".38 Magnum" would have caught on very well in a market flooded with ".38s".
It's the same reason why .460 S&W isn't just ".45 S&W Ultra-Mag" or something, despite the fact that in this case, .460 S&W is in fact a .452 caliber bullet, same as so many other .45cal cartridges, including .454 Casull.
.38 Short Colt
.38 Long Colt
.38-40
.38 S&W
.38 Special
.38 ACP
.380 ACP
.38 Super
The list goes on and on...
.357 Magnum was named to more accurately represent the diameter of the projectile, breaking away from an old, outdated naming convention which was formerly accurate when applied to old heeled bullets, but had since been inaccurately applied to several other cartridges for no better reason than marketability.
Ultimately, I believe it was a good call, as I doubt the ".38 Magnum" would have caught on very well in a market flooded with ".38s".
It's the same reason why .460 S&W isn't just ".45 S&W Ultra-Mag" or something, despite the fact that in this case, .460 S&W is in fact a .452 caliber bullet, same as so many other .45cal cartridges, including .454 Casull.
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Not to change the subject, but the biggest scam in the ammunition world is "+P".
Ralph Tremaine
Ralph Tremaine
Johnny Dangerously...Now what did I do with that DVD?...
I wonder if his mom ever got that operation?
OP
RM Vivas
US Veteran
All good answers!
I always figured it was because as a new cartridge for anew revolver, S&W wanted to break with the old and embrace something completely new.
In correspondence between Guilford Hartley (RM#702) and DBW dated 09MAR36 DBW states:
''....I was very much pleased to receive your letter of March 5th and to hear that your Magnum Registered #720 is living up to what we say about it; as a matter of fact, I cannot conceal the fact that I consider it to be by far the finest hand arm that has ever been produced.
The published calibre sizes of revolvers are all very curious and have no real bearing on the bullet diameter; for example, the .32 S. & W. Long has a bullet diameter of .313, while the .38 S. & W. Special has a bullet diameter of .357. When we were looking for a name for this new and most powerful arm it occurred to me that it would be quite novel and arouse quite a bit of interest if we should refer to the actual bullet diameter, and for that reason we hit on the name of .357 Magnum. Personally, I feel that for some reason or other that sounds much more powerful than 38...."
So it seems that ".357" was chosen as a name because it was "quite novel and (would) arouse quite a bit of interest if we should refer to the actual bullet diameter".
Info courtesy of S&W Historical Foundation (you -are- a member, aren't you?) #DVD1_11-19-2009\0\4\4523.tif
Best,
RM Vivas
I always figured it was because as a new cartridge for anew revolver, S&W wanted to break with the old and embrace something completely new.
In correspondence between Guilford Hartley (RM#702) and DBW dated 09MAR36 DBW states:
''....I was very much pleased to receive your letter of March 5th and to hear that your Magnum Registered #720 is living up to what we say about it; as a matter of fact, I cannot conceal the fact that I consider it to be by far the finest hand arm that has ever been produced.
The published calibre sizes of revolvers are all very curious and have no real bearing on the bullet diameter; for example, the .32 S. & W. Long has a bullet diameter of .313, while the .38 S. & W. Special has a bullet diameter of .357. When we were looking for a name for this new and most powerful arm it occurred to me that it would be quite novel and arouse quite a bit of interest if we should refer to the actual bullet diameter, and for that reason we hit on the name of .357 Magnum. Personally, I feel that for some reason or other that sounds much more powerful than 38...."
So it seems that ".357" was chosen as a name because it was "quite novel and (would) arouse quite a bit of interest if we should refer to the actual bullet diameter".
Info courtesy of S&W Historical Foundation (you -are- a member, aren't you?) #DVD1_11-19-2009\0\4\4523.tif
Best,
RM Vivas
OP
RM Vivas
US Veteran
"I'm not an expert, but I know who the experts are."
Remember...An Ex is a has been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure!
A few people at the SWCA Tulsa show mistakenly called me an expert in some field or another and my response was that an expert is a fellow who knows exactly -ONE- more fact than everybody else!
Kind like you only have to be right %51 of the time to be a gifted weatherman!
Best,
RM Vivas
Alk8944
US Veteran
Legend has it that Elmer Keith blew up more than one pistol in developing the .357mag round.
I bet he said some adult words afterwards...............
There is only evidence of one revolver that Elmer Keith blew up, and that was a .45 Colt Single Action Army.
Elmer Keith had nothing directly to do with the .357 Magnum. It was a joint development of Smith & Wesson, Winchester and Phillip B. Sharpe. There is a full chapter devoted to the .357 Magnum in "Complete Guide to Handloading" written by Phillip B. Sharpe. Buy a copy if you really want to know the history of the cartridge and revolver!
The bottom line is the cartridge was called the .357 Magnum because Major Daniel B. Wesson, president of S&W at the time of its development, named it that!
The explanation of the case being large for caliber, like a magnum of Champagne, has been around for a long time and is likely his motivation for the name.
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Holland and Holland was first.......
The .375 H&H was the first designated 'magnum' cartridge in 1912. So we can only credit developers of the .357 magnum for using the designation in pistol rounds. Incidentally, theirs was one of the few magnum rifle cartridges that actually needed a belt for headspacing due to the tapered case with an indistinct shoulder. Later, manufacturers put belts on any magnum cartridge. In Speer #9 they say that the belt on most magnum cartridge are there for 'eye appeal', but I think it's more for 'mouth appeal' as telling someone that you were shooting a 'belted' magnum was considered the ultimate in redneck parlance.
The .375 H&H was the first designated 'magnum' cartridge in 1912. So we can only credit developers of the .357 magnum for using the designation in pistol rounds. Incidentally, theirs was one of the few magnum rifle cartridges that actually needed a belt for headspacing due to the tapered case with an indistinct shoulder. Later, manufacturers put belts on any magnum cartridge. In Speer #9 they say that the belt on most magnum cartridge are there for 'eye appeal', but I think it's more for 'mouth appeal' as telling someone that you were shooting a 'belted' magnum was considered the ultimate in redneck parlance.
Remember the .357 case is longer than the .38 Sp's.
So the Fifth vs Magnum analogy makes sense IMHO
So the Fifth vs Magnum analogy makes sense IMHO
S&W probably wanted to differentiate the new round from the .38/44 Super Police and other Hi-Speed .38 Special cartridges. Calling it the .357 Magnum did that and also allowed the company to register the name with the U. S. Patent Office.
Bill
Bill
It's been a while since I've read Keith's story on the .357mag work he did. As I recall (keep in mind I'm old) Keith did his work totally independent of Smith. I'm sure they were aware of each other & so forth.
Seems like Smith did invite Keith to the introduction to the new gun/caliber. I also recall they gifted him one of the first few made.
I need to get Keith's book, so I don't have to rely on my faulty memory...............
Pisgah
Member
Why .357 Magnum? Sales.
If they'd thought calling it "Winnie the Pooh" would sell more, Winnie it would be...
If they'd thought calling it "Winnie the Pooh" would sell more, Winnie it would be...
Many years ago Mel Brooks said it so wisely..... Merchandising. That is loosely by definition any practice which contributes to the sale of a product to a retail customer/consumer.
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