Why is it called the .357 Magnum? UPDATED 05OCT24 Best(?) answer #31

RM Vivas

RM Vivas

US Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
643
Reaction score
4,447
Location
ROCK/me/HARD-PLACE
Question:

When S&W came out with the Registered Magnum they had to come up with a name for their new cartridge. Why was it called the .357 Magnum instead of the .38 Magnum or something similar? Wouldn't .357 sound like a smaller bullet than .38 to those folks who didn't already know that a .38 bullet was .357 in diameter?

I'd like to hear what people think the reason is.

Best,
RM Vivas
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
I would love to hear the genuine true history behind this also.

What I suspect is that they wanted to distance this new cartridge away from the .38 Special because it was so much more powerful.

I know that their methods for pressure testing in the 1930's were more antiquated then compared to what's possible today, but did they also realize that this cartridge is a full DOUBLE the peak pressure of the .38 Special?

We know and love that .357 Mag revolvers run wonderfully with .38 Special in them, but my guess is that flexibility was not a key selling point of the new cartridge and revolver, but pure brute power was the calling card and their goal was to show how new, different and "better" it was, and not to give any idea that it was similar.
 
To add what others have said, they (the S&W leadership) probably also wanted to distinguish it from the many other ".38" rounds then available. .38 S&W, .38 Long Colt, .38 Special, etc. Having something different and with the Magnum moniker would be an excellent marketing point.
 
Adding to what Sevins and others stated. From reading Magnum by Mullin I believe Wesson sought to distinguish this new round from the .38 spl and .38/44.
 
Sevens said:
I know that their methods for pressure testing in the 1930's were more antiquated then compared to what's possible today, but did they also realize that this cartridge is a full DOUBLE the peak pressure of the .38 Special?
Click to expand...

Can anyone doubt that Phil Sharpe knew the pressures he was dealing with? Of course he did. He was one of (if not the) premier ballisticians of his time.

Why do you think he used the N frame .38/44 as a test bed, rather than the K frame M&P?
 
.38 SPL bullets are actually .357" in diameter. They are internally lubricated and fit inside the cartridge case. Legacy pistol calibers like .38 and .44 were originally externally lubricated, and the same diameter as the case, with only a tail inside, like a modern .22 LR. A .44 Magnum measures .429". Latecomer (1873) .45 Colt (and ACP) measure .454". So much for truth in advertising, 19th century style.
 
Last edited:
I like the champagne connection. Got me thinking about S&W's internal designation of the 44 MAGNUM, the NT-430 (bore diameter). Now that's a magnum.
 
Testing done on the new cartridge with the N-frame and past usage of the 38/44 as a (+P) type version of the venerable .38 Special probably led them to come up with something to both grab attention and eliminate any confusion between the three. Whatever the reasoning for the "magnum" moniker it certainly stuck for any caliber cartridge that will not chamber in its parent caliber cylinder, .38 Special-.357magnum, .44 Special-.44 Magnum which maybe they learned a lesson and failed to follow suit with .429 Magnum. A curiosity is the .41 Magnum, it didn't really follow a common non magnum cartridge. Of them all it is the only one I never had any interest in and therefore am most ignorant. Never was one to deal in compromises and I feel the .41 is a compromise. I have a friend that thinks its the neatest thing, go big or go home...I know, I know ballistics say this or that.
 
Doug Wesson stated, "The name is derived from the maximum diameter of the rifled portion of the barrel, measured between opposite groove areas, namely, .357 inches." Regarding the word 'Magnum', Wesson said it was defined by the English as "A greater chamber capacity than Military dimensions and power beyond the normal expectancy of the caliber."

Old timers from S&W had a different story. They always said that Major Wesson liked champagne, and he especially liked it in the large bottle called a Magnum. When the new revolver was christened, Wesson simply stated that the new large case cartridge was as good as a magnum of champagne; they liked the name and called the cartridge the .357 Magnum.

Got this from a Roy Jinks article titled "The Revolver that Changed the Direction of Handgunning."

I'm not an expert, but I know who the experts are.
 
Last edited:
I think Colt set out to confuse people. ;-)

Black powder .36 Colts use a .38 round ball or conical bullet while modern .38 Special Colts use a .36 caliber (.357) bullet.

Park in a driveway and drive on a parkway kind of thing....
 
Kinman up there notes they wanted to "grab attention". That they did!! Why? So they could sell something----and get the money I figure they were so desperately needing----right along with a whole bunch of other folks------smack dab in the middle of the "Great Depression".

What to do?! What to do is come up with something different---and special---so they could "Sell the sizzle---not the steak!"

So what's the special? The cartridge is the special! The gun's not too shabby either, but a gun's a gun, and this one's not much different than its kin---aside from the checkering on top. Of course you need to buy the gun, so you can use the cartridge. My very first example of the gun was an 8 3/4" beast bought by the president of a public utility in Duluth, Minnesota---and he for damn sure was going to test out that cartridge-----had the gun sighted in at 100 yards with Magnum ammunition!! And what'd he do with it? He took it home, and put it in his sock drawer---and there it stayed until his heir put it in his sock drawer----'cause it was something special! And then I got it----'cause it was something special.

And sell the sizzle is exactly what they did------and it worked! You can tell it worked by the fact they weathered the storm, and they're still here.

Now I can go on and on with some facts and figures to show you the whys and wherefores, but they've been presented to you before by a true scholar of the times. He caught my attention right off, so much so that I went off with a heightened awareness of the fact all this wasn't so much about a new cartridge and a new gun as it was about how to keep on keeping on!

Ralph Tremaine
 
Last edited:
bobsguns said:
Legend has it that Elmer Keith blew up more than one pistol in developing the .357mag round.

I bet he said some adult words afterwards............... :D
Click to expand...

I suspect legend has become a bit confused with the passage of time. Philip B. Sharpe is the gentleman S&W credits with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge --------and he didn't blow up any guns. He did scare the pants off of Doug Wesson with some of his experiments along the way, but Wesson survived, as did the 38-44 Outdoorsman given to Sharpe as a test bed. Later on, when the patting on the back was in progress, Wesson gave Sharpe another gun----Registered Magnum #2.

Actually, Sharpe was the recipient of more than a few gifted guns. One of them was a 22/40 that lived here for quite a spell. I didn't know the first thing about all that when I bought it, not until the letter arrived. The Boss Lady says I was in need of some calming medicine when that showed up!

Ralph Tremaine
 
StrawHat said:
I believe Phil Sharpe suggested the name 38 Special Magnum, or something similar.

Kevin
Click to expand...

38 Special Magnum is correct---as are a couple others: 38 Special Experimental, and 38 Sharpe Magnum. All these are shown as labels on photos of entrance and exit holes in bars of soap.

Surprisingly enough, Sharpe was also fooling with a 44 Sharpe Magnum----just a little ahead of time------and making A LOT bigger holes!!

Ralph Tremaine
 
It was namely to diversify the new cartridge from a litany of other cartridges dubbed as .38cal, despite the fact that they were all actually .35, .36, or even .40cal in the case of .38-40.

.38 Short Colt
.38 Long Colt
.38-40
.38 S&W
.38 Special
.38 ACP
.380 ACP
.38 Super

The list goes on and on...

.357 Magnum was named to more accurately represent the diameter of the projectile, breaking away from an old, outdated naming convention which was formerly accurate when applied to old heeled bullets, but had since been inaccurately applied to several other cartridges for no better reason than marketability.

Ultimately, I believe it was a good call, as I doubt the ".38 Magnum" would have caught on very well in a market flooded with ".38s".

It's the same reason why .460 S&W isn't just ".45 S&W Ultra-Mag" or something, despite the fact that in this case, .460 S&W is in fact a .452 caliber bullet, same as so many other .45cal cartridges, including .454 Casull.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RM Vivas
Archival Observations: Super Engraved Registered Magnum; .357 Magnum Revolving Rifle
Replies
3
Views
364
RM Vivas
RM Vivas
RM Vivas
Magnum Musings – Mexican Magnums - Manos Arriba! Policia Cabron!
Replies
2
Views
480
DARE
DARE
RM Vivas
Magnum Musings - A Spicy Magnum
Replies
4
Views
555
MSD2343
M
RM Vivas
Archival Observations: A Man Who Knows What He Wants; The Queen Of Kings
Replies
4
Views
474
RM Vivas
RM Vivas
RM Vivas
Magnum Musings - Second Hand Magnums
Replies
9
Views
1K
RM Vivas
RM Vivas

Latest posts

Back
Top