Failure to Extract/Eject after use of Forward Assist

[Huntress343]

Weapon Platform is a S&W AR15 (.556 caliber)

After performing a chamber check I use the forward assist to verify the round is seated. Whenever I use the forward assist the unfired round will not extract/eject. The rounds will extract/ eject correctly if I do not use the forward assist.

Any ideas if this would be the forward assist forcing the round too far into the chamber or the chamber is not sized correctly? The ammunition is Hornady .556 soft tips.

 

[s&wchad]

Welcome aboard!

Are there rifling marks on the bullet when this happens?
What weight bullet are you using?
Have you tried other ammo?

 

[stanmerrell]

I'd replace the extractor spring. The FA should not be causing a malfunction.

 

[LVSteve]

Weak extractor
Ammo out of spec
Chamber out of spec.

Perhaps the experts can chime in on the S&W15 chamber. Is it 5.56x45, .223, Wylde, or some other hybrid.

 

[WR Moore]

About the chamber-if the barrel is stamped 5.56 NATO forward of the front sight tower/block, it's a 5.56 x 45 mm NATO chamber. If it's not, then check the S&W website for the specs for your particular variant. I don't believe the Sport series has a NATO chamber, the website will let you know.

The OP answered the possible ammo quality question. That said, the AR wasn't designed to feed soft points. While many will feed, if you want an expanding bullet the hollow point or plastic tip rounds should always work. ETA: it also wasn't designed to use ammo with steel cases.

I'm puzzled by the "after the chamber check" remark. If you want to verify that a round loaded after inserting a magazine and letting the bolt run into battery, pull the magazine and check the position of the top round. The magazine loads alternatively from the left and right sides. If the top round was on the right, the top round should now be on the left. There is no alternative space/time continuum for the fed round to travel to, it's going to be in the chamber. You can do this, even in the dark, by feel.

Now about the FA......the purpose is to allow you to make sure- BY THUMB PRESSURE- that the bolt is fully forward if you don't let the bolt run free to feed a cartridge. Or, if you've just gotta be sure that the bolt is fully forward. IMHO, palm strikes are both unnecessary and your time could be better spent in the case of a failure to feed.

If you're using the FA correctly and the problem continues, even with different ammo, use your factory warranty.

 

[LVSteve]

In my earlier comments I have assumed that the chamber and the gun as a whole are clean.

I wonder if somebody has told the OP that they should ALWAYS use the forward assist. That is incorrect, of course, but we all know how legends about gun handling develop.

 

[WR Moore]

Utube used to have quite a few videos of folks beating rounds into the chamber with the FA. This generally resulted in an over pressure event due to something lodged in the barrel that prevented the next round from chambering normally.

One would think that folks would know better, but then common sense is often an oxymoron.

 

[cd228]

I'd try some 55 grain .223 FMJ brass cased in it. That will help tell if it's the ammo or the rifle.

I'd also get a flash light and give the reciever extension and bolt assembly a good inspection. You can check extractor tension with a spent case, and the condition of the extractor claw with your finger tips. As mentioned above you might have a damaged extractor.

 

[67tempest]

I have been shooting AR's for over 50 year's, I have NEVER used the FA feature on any of my rifles that have it. It is totally unnecessary if the rifle's chamber is clean and the ammo is within spec's. If you have an issue which prevents a round from being chambered why in the world would you want to use a FA and jam it in even farther?

 

[g-dad]

I agree with 67tempest. I have never used or needed to use the FA with any AR I have.

 

[GypsmJim]

I have been shooting AR's for over 50 year's, I have NEVER used the FA feature on any of my rifles that have it. It is totally unnecessary if the rifle's chamber is clean and the ammo is within spec's. If you have an issue which prevents a round from being chambered why in the world would you want to use a FA and jam it in even farther?

Makes sense to me!

I admit that I am an AR newbee. I currently have 2 that are 100% reliable and accurate. I have wondered about this FA. Why is it there in the first place? What would be a reasonable scenario that it would be used?

 

[WR Moore]

Part of it is tradition. Prior to the adoption of the AR, which BTW, never went through the usual procurement/troop trials thing, all the various arms had some way to force the bolt in both directions. Waaay back when, the unreliability of the design in combat caused Congressional hearings and resulted in design changes (FA was one), improved training and also changes in ammunition. A full accounting would take pages. [It also isn't really unusual. When first issued, the M1 Garand had serious issues in the rain which led to first issuing grease for the back of the bolt, followed by a redesign of the hammer/bolt interface. Fortunately, that was discovered before we had to use it in a war.]

Now then, when exposed to harsh environments, where dust, rain, combustion particulates, sand, overheating and/or lack of lubrication might cause the bolt to fail to return to battery, a way to give it a mite of assistance is considered a good idea. However, one has to have at least a smidgen of common sense.

Another use is that if, for some reason (like wanting to avoid the noise), you don't let the bolt run free from fully retracted and it stops just short of battery (fully forward), the FA gives you a way to gently move the bolt forward and complete chambering a round. BTW, you may have noticed the little depression in the carrier that creates clearance for the latch on the bolt cover and also pops it open. A secondary use was that your thumb could press on the carrier there to fully seat the bolt. That the area would be quite hot from the combustion gases that operate the bolt seems to have been unrecognized.

ETA: at some point a product improved bolt carrier was developed that doesn't have a round(ish) profile at the front end. It's got multiple flats there to increase clearance between the carrier and upper receiver. This is similar in concept to the "sand cuts" that were later placed in the FN FAL bolt to allow it to shake stuff that didn't belong in the action free. Foreign material can also accumulate in magazines then get introduced into the action when used.

 

[hardluk1]

Assuming your forward assist is not stuck forward from to much unneeded use read up or watch a you tube video on How To MOTAR Your Ar15 to clear the cartridge !

I have never had a reason to use a forward assist on my home assembled AR's . Good luck .

 

[bobsguns]

Makes sense to me!

I admit that I am an AR newbee. I currently have 2 that are 100% reliable and accurate. I have wondered about this FA. Why is it there in the first place? What would be a reasonable scenario that it would be used?

When the AR was first introduced as the M-16 to the military, the wonder minds known as McNamara's Kids decided the M-16 didn't need to be cleaned nor lubed. McNamara was LBJ's Sec of Defense. Many grunts were killed in the early days of Viet Nam & were found with disassembled M-16s, desperately trying to clear a jam.

Eventually, someone with some gun sense realized that no cleaning & no lube was pretty !@#$%^ stupid & that practice went by the wayside. But not before the M-16A1 was introduced with the forward assist.

A huge issue with the M-16 was the use of the wrong powder in the ammo, creating those jams. Sadly, many Marines & soldiers died before those issues got fixed.

Current models of the AR now leave off the FA, mostly to save mfg costs. My retro model doesn't have one, for example.

My .o2

 

[bamashooter]

FA can be of value. Especially so if in stealth mode walking the bolt forward with the CH. Complete chambering with the FA. Beats the hell out of a "thumb" assist. Did the problem get resolved? The FA can be removed with a simple punch to remove the retainer pin. Some easier than others. You can also replace the FA with a plug.

 

[Yendor357]

If the magazine is fully seated, and locked into place, there is no need for a chamber check. Drop the bolt, and go.
If you don’t accept that answer, simply take note of the orientation of the first round in the mag before insertion. Chamber round. Re-check mag.

Forward assists have created more problems than they have solved.

Watch the videos of Small Arms Solutions. Lots of good info, and entertaining.

 

[WR Moore]

When the AR was first introduced as the M-16 to the military, the wonder minds known as McNamara's Kids decided the M-16 didn't need to be cleaned nor lubed. McNamara was LBJ's Sec of Defense. Many grunts were killed in the early days of Viet Nam & were found with disassembled M-16s, desperately trying to clear a jam.

This is nit picking, but: While Strange McNamara did shove the AR down the DODs throat, the major issue was lack of troop trials/lack of institutional knowledge and supply chain issues.

A huge issue with the M-16 was the use of the wrong powder in the ammo, creating those jams. Sadly, many Marines & soldiers died before those issues got fixed.

Wasn't the wrong powder, some idiot (at Olin) decided that if X amount of flash suppressant worked, 3X was more better. It clogged gas tubes.