The year is 1935. The Registered Magnum is now alive and well. It's available for $60, or $39 if you are a LEO or are belong to an organization such as the NRA. In comparison, how much was the Outdoorsman and .38/44 Heavy Duty in 1935?
Original cost of Registered Magnum vs .38/44 Heavy Duty, Outdoorsman
- Thread starter mrcvs
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Well it's for '39 but I have a HD that shipped wholesale to LE for $23.51
The RM was roughly double the price of a 38/44 OD. The average LEO made maybe $1,000-$1,500 a year, perhaps less for many; $60 (or even $45) for an RM must have been seen as out of reach for most of them. If they had to buy their own gun a used 4 inch M&P probably looked like the best solution.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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Less than the RM by some unknown, but I dare say a significant amount---never mind the only difference is the checkered top strap and rib. The RM cost $17 to make. By the only comparison I know about, a 22/40 cost $14 to make. Any N frame is going to cost more than any K frame, but the cost to make an RM doesn't have a whole lot to do with the retail price. S&W was clearly desperate for cash. They hoped beyond hope the hype they put out about the gun----and very likely more so about the cartridge would prove to be effective---and it was! They also did everything they could to sell the gun direct to individuals in the beginning. They didn't refuse to sell to their distributors----just made the price ridiculous ($47)---leaving a whopping $13 to be shared with the retailer---a losing proposition for both!
That went into the latter part of 1935, when enough distributors to get S&W's attention got together and convinced S&W it would be in their best interest to be reasonable. They were---and the distributor price dropped to $39---before the end of the year.
As an aside, the discount offered to NRA members was considerably less than that you noted. (How much less has suddenly become a mystery, as my reference material is nowhere to be found.) The good news is it's retrievable from a member to whom I recently sent a copy. I'll tend to that directly, and pass it along to you---if you care one way or the other.
Ralph Tremaine
LATE BREAKING NEWS: My disappeared reference material has reappeared! It seems I sent it along with the copy. It's on its way back. This sort of thing is generally known as a " Brain Fart"------an "elder moment" in polite company.
That went into the latter part of 1935, when enough distributors to get S&W's attention got together and convinced S&W it would be in their best interest to be reasonable. They were---and the distributor price dropped to $39---before the end of the year.
As an aside, the discount offered to NRA members was considerably less than that you noted. (How much less has suddenly become a mystery, as my reference material is nowhere to be found.) The good news is it's retrievable from a member to whom I recently sent a copy. I'll tend to that directly, and pass it along to you---if you care one way or the other.
Ralph Tremaine
LATE BREAKING NEWS: My disappeared reference material has reappeared! It seems I sent it along with the copy. It's on its way back. This sort of thing is generally known as a " Brain Fart"------an "elder moment" in polite company.
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By 1939 there were apparently quantity discounts in addition to the standard police discounts….. the Kansas City Police Department order for 250 .357 Magnums was billed at $35.45 each for a total price of $8862.50 in July 1939…..
Note the "City Order-No Tax" comment on the invoice document---likely part (or all) of the difference.
It's likely the Historical Foundation could come up with confirmation of such---perhaps under the heading of excise tax---or federal excise tax.
Ralph Tremaine
It's likely the Historical Foundation could come up with confirmation of such---perhaps under the heading of excise tax---or federal excise tax.
Ralph Tremaine
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1935 Retail Prices. HD $37.50. Outdoorsman $45.00
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Ian, here are copies of the 1935 dealer price sheets and 1935 retail price sheet. Dealer cost and retail for the RM was $48 and $60, respectively. For the HD, $30 and $37.50. The OD was $36 and $45.
Attachments
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Well THAT (^^^^^) makes me feel GOOD!!
I came up with my $47 distributor cost business from data on a distributor's order form----which might as well have been written in Sanskrit---whatever that is---and some 3rd grade arithmetic! Now knowing I was damn near right makes for a happy camper!!
Ralph Tremaine
I came up with my $47 distributor cost business from data on a distributor's order form----which might as well have been written in Sanskrit---whatever that is---and some 3rd grade arithmetic! Now knowing I was damn near right makes for a happy camper!!
Ralph Tremaine
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RM Vivas
US Veteran
You had to submit an affadavit for LE purchases in order to avoid the excise tax. This exemption brought the price down by about %10.
I have an instructor who specializes in american crime & law in the 20th century with an emphasis on the 1920's and 1930's bootleg era.
He and I were discussing my Magnum research and I commented on how colorful; some of the characters were who were ordering Magnums and the features they wanted. He made a very astute observation that I hadnt thought of:
He pointed out that if an NYPD Patrolman was making about $1800 a year in NYC, it was reasonable to assume that Deputy Fife in East Jesus, KY was making a little less, say $1500 per year. That works out to roughly $30/week -before- taxes. As my instructor pointed out, how is a man with a family able to afford a gun that cost about a week and one halfs salary?
His suggestion was that while many men would happily spend two weeks wages for a nice gun, he felt that many more were buying the guns using their 'tip' money
Best,
RM Vivas
I have an instructor who specializes in american crime & law in the 20th century with an emphasis on the 1920's and 1930's bootleg era.
He and I were discussing my Magnum research and I commented on how colorful; some of the characters were who were ordering Magnums and the features they wanted. He made a very astute observation that I hadnt thought of:
He pointed out that if an NYPD Patrolman was making about $1800 a year in NYC, it was reasonable to assume that Deputy Fife in East Jesus, KY was making a little less, say $1500 per year. That works out to roughly $30/week -before- taxes. As my instructor pointed out, how is a man with a family able to afford a gun that cost about a week and one halfs salary?
His suggestion was that while many men would happily spend two weeks wages for a nice gun, he felt that many more were buying the guns using their 'tip' money
Best,
RM Vivas
I offer a hearty THANK YOU to Bruce and Charlie for sharing their images of the old catalogs and pricing sheets!
Hear, hear!...
...BenBLACKHAWKNJ
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My mother-b. 1913-told me the first minimum wage law specified $15/week for a 44 hour week, so $60 for a Registered Magnum would have been a month's pay for many. Also many local and state budgets were severely strained, government employees were often paid in kind or with promissory notes,IOUs.
I heard the law enforcement price was $48 for the .357 Magnum.
My gun REG 657 shipped December 1935 at a wholesale price of $39.
Even though my gun was purchased by an FBI agent, SWHF says no evidence he got the law enforcement discount. Probably the dealer had a gun in stock and my guy was in a hurry for it.
Retail price for the .357 Magnum was $60, $45 for the .38/44 Outdoorsman and $37.50 for the .38/44 Heavy Duty.
Whatever discounts that were available for the .357 Magnum were probably available for the other guns as well.
So the .357 Magnum was a third more expensive than the Outdoorsman and 60% more expensive than the Heavy Duty.
My gun REG 657 shipped December 1935 at a wholesale price of $39.
Even though my gun was purchased by an FBI agent, SWHF says no evidence he got the law enforcement discount. Probably the dealer had a gun in stock and my guy was in a hurry for it.
Retail price for the .357 Magnum was $60, $45 for the .38/44 Outdoorsman and $37.50 for the .38/44 Heavy Duty.
Whatever discounts that were available for the .357 Magnum were probably available for the other guns as well.
So the .357 Magnum was a third more expensive than the Outdoorsman and 60% more expensive than the Heavy Duty.
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By 1939 there were apparently quantity discounts in addition to the standard police discounts….. the Kansas City Police Department order for 250 .357 Magnums was billed at $35.45 each for a total price of $8862.50 in July 1939…..
I am a generous kind of guy! So if I could roll back the calendar, I would pay $10,000 for the 250 .357 Magnums, no questions asked!
Larry
I agree, even if they were in the condition that most of them are in today. In fact, the total price of $8862.50 for the 250 Magnums in 1939 is only about 18% more than I paid for just one of them in 2015…..
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You had to submit an affadavit for LE purchases in order to avoid the excise tax. This exemption brought the price down by about %10.
I have an instructor who specializes in american crime & law in the 20th century with an emphasis on the 1920's and 1930's bootleg era.
He and I were discussing my Magnum research and I commented on how colorful; some of the characters were who were ordering Magnums and the features they wanted. He made a very astute observation that I hadnt thought of:
He pointed out that if an NYPD Patrolman was making about $1800 a year in NYC, it was reasonable to assume that Deputy Fife in East Jesus, KY was making a little less, say $1500 per year. That works out to roughly $30/week -before- taxes. As my instructor pointed out, how is a man with a family able to afford a gun that cost about a week and one halfs salary?
His suggestion was that while many men would happily spend two weeks wages for a nice gun, he felt that many more were buying the guns using their 'tip' money
Best,
RM Vivas
Tip money, My home town had a good size house of ill repute on one end of Main st. that operated there until the mid 70s when it was moves about 10 miles out of town, where it remained until the 90s. Several bars also had poker tables and punch boards adored most of them, all this well before any gambling was legal. The house was a hot social topic on the local radio call in show, yet a big deal was some of the seniors on the football team would go there to sell season tickets to the madam. I suspect another cost of doing business. Later when I was spending time in the bars I met the "bag man" who collected from the bars and the madam and delivered the cash. He said when the county changed sheriffs they never missed a payment. The previous sheriff there served from 1985-2017, his predecessor served from 1966 to 85. The people elected the law they wanted. As a kid, I could walk across town without worries. People left their doors unlocked, in fact I don't know anyone who locked them.
I don't care if there was an un official sin tax or how it was collected or spent.
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Mike LaNier
Member
My dad was an old Montana cowboy (born 1909) and went to work at age 15 making $40 a month (1924) rounding up wild horses. He owned an old Smith & Wesson New Model 3 in .44 Russian; I don't know what he paid for it, but we still have that old gun. I'm sure he couldn't afford a new one even in the 1950's.
DWalt
Member
The Federal Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 set the first nationally enforceable minimum hourly wage which was 0.25/hour, mainly applied to unskilled manual labor. But most factory jobs and skilled labor paid more. I remember seeing that most defense plant workers during WWII made wages between $1.00 and $1.50/hour depending on the job. That was about what I made from my first paid job when I was in high school during the early 1960s.
I remember the old Stoeger catalogs from the 1950s contained an affidavit page that allowed a cop to avoid paying the excise tax if he bought a gun from Stoeger. I think the cop had to get his chief or maybe the local sheriff or whoever the top dog was to sign it.
I remember the old Stoeger catalogs from the 1950s contained an affidavit page that allowed a cop to avoid paying the excise tax if he bought a gun from Stoeger. I think the cop had to get his chief or maybe the local sheriff or whoever the top dog was to sign it.
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