Model of 1905; date and value?

[firefighterjohn]

Last week at my LGS they showed me a Model of 1905 that they just took in. At least I think it's a Model of 1905 since it has a square butt. It is pretty good shape, has original diamond stocks and had a great tight cylinder lock-up. The serial number is 759nn and the OTD price was $500 so put it on layaway.

This would be my first S&W of this type so I started doing some research here and some auction sites.

Can anyone give me a manufacture date range and what 'change' it might be? I know prices can really fluctuate based on condition and age, but I thought this was a nice deal and a one to add to my collection. It surely would have been gone if I hesitated.

Thanks for any input.

 

[glowe]

First question is what is the caliber?? It sounds like a 32-20?

 

[firefighterjohn]

First question is what is the caliber?? It sounds like a 32-20?

Duh...forgot to say that it is a .38 special. Pretty sure it's a 5" barrel length too.

 

[4K2022]

This would be my first S&W of this type so I started doing some research here and some auction sites.

Thanks for any input.

,”of this type.”

When speaking of a Sq butt,, 1905

The serial number will be on the bottom of the grip frame on the butt, maybe a letter, or star also

A picture would help

 

[firefighterjohn]

,”of this type.”

When speaking of a Sq butt,, 1905

The serial number will be on the bottom of the grip frame on the butt, maybe a letter, or star also

A picture would help

Sorry, no picture yet since it's still not fully mine. The 759nn serial number was on the bottom of the grip frame and 759nn was also stamped on the back cylinder face.

 

[glowe]

The reason I asked is that the serial number falls into the Model 1902, 1st Change model. In 1904, at serial number 85,000 the factory started making square-butt revolvers. All earlier revolvers were round-butt. Your serial number falls almost 10,000 below the documented start of the square-butt model. Could you check just ahead of the trigger guard to see if there is a screw or not?

See Posts 8 & 9 for correction.

 

[rct269]

There is, for a fact, a school of thought that identifies a 1905 as with a square butt---because the factory catalogs of the time called it that----hard point to argue about.

Hard point or not, there's another school of thought that says M&P's (by whatever other name at the time) with the monkey motion lever system of trigger control are 1902's (and prior), and those with the rebound slide system of trigger control are 1905's.

Now we come to counting screws, instead of removing the sideplate to have a look inside. A Model of 1902 with monkey motion has four screws. A Model of 1905 has five. The fifth screw on the 1905 is to be found on the bottom of the frame, at the front of the trigger guard, that is until MUCH later on when they did away with that one too.

All this is in accord with the desire to save on screws.

Period/paragraph/end of discussion!!

Ralph Tremaine

Oh, and another helpful hint: At such time as you might want to disassemble a monkey motion action for a proper bath, there's a special tool designed by our member Mike Priwer that prevents baldness occasioned by tearing your hair out. To save him from being pestered for details, let me know, and I'll give them to you---as he gave them to me---to help save my hair.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Your .38 M&P is a Model 1905, 1st or 2nd Change from around 1907. I really don't understand why folks are so confused about it.

 

[glowe]

I think I have a case of dyslexia! The 4 screw square butt revolvers started with serial number 58,000 and not 85,000 so Guy is correct in his assessment. It is a 5 screw, not a 4 screw and by my notes it should be a Model 1905, 1st change shipped as Guy states.

 

[DWalt]

Correct grips would not have medallions, and the upper part will be slightly dished. You may or may not be able to see a matching serial number pencilled on the inside of the right panel.

 

[alwslate]

$500 is a bit too high unless the condition is very good.

 

[4K2022]

$500 is a bit too high unless the condition is very good.

If you’re looking for an old one
It’s an old one! I think $500 for a Very Good condition 38 is a pretty nice deal too these days. I might even overlook the stocks because I place a value on Buying Local.

My last auction house purchase, added +30% to the

 

[firefighterjohn]

The reason I asked is that the serial number falls into the Model 1902, 1st Change model. In 1904, at serial number 85,000 the factory started making square-butt revolvers. All earlier revolvers were round-butt. Your serial number falls almost 10,000 below the documented start of the square-butt model. Could you check just ahead of the trigger guard to see if there is a screw or not?

See Posts 9 & 10 for correction.

Thanks for your insight glowe. Yes, right at start of the bend of the trigger guard there is a screw.

Also, thank you for your service.

 

[firefighterjohn]

There is, for a fact, a school of thought that identifies a 1905 as with a square butt---because the factory catalogs of the time called it that----hard point to argue about.

Hard point or not, there's another school of thought that says M&P's (by whatever other name at the time) with the monkey motion lever system of trigger control are 1902's (and prior), and those with the rebound slide system of trigger control are 1905's.

Now we come to counting screws, instead of removing the sideplate to have a look inside. A Model of 1902 with monkey motion has four screws. A Model of 1905 has five. The fifth screw on the 1905 is to be found on the bottom of the frame, at the front of the trigger guard, that is until MUCH later on when they did away with that one too.

All this is in accord with the desire to save on screws.

Period/paragraph/end of discussion!!

Ralph Tremaine

Thanks for all the great info on trigger control of this series Ralph! Mine does have 5 screws.

 

[firefighterjohn]

Your .38 M&P is a Model 1905, 1st or 2nd Change from around 1907. I really don't understand why folks are so confused about it.

Thanks for the date info Guy. Although this one doesn't have near as nice of blued finish as my other S&Ws, it's still a very mechanically sound revolver and one that I didn't have in my collection so far.

Thank you for your service Guy.

 

[firefighterjohn]

Correct grips would not have medallions, and the upper part will be slightly dished. You may or may not be able to see a matching serial number pencilled on the inside of the right panel.

The diamond grips on this one does not have medallions and the upper part is slightly dished. I held it again yesterday and it feels great! Thansk DWalt.

 

[firefighterjohn]

$500 is a bit too high unless the condition is very good.

Thank you for your service as well.

You're probably right since it isn't in very good condition; I'd rate it as good as far as finish but very good mechanically.

It's only money though right? That's what we all tell ourselves to justify this addiction.

"See dear...it shoots the same ammo I already have..so I don't have to buy a NEW caliber."

That's what I call "caliber justification". She just rolls her eyes...

 

[firefighterjohn]

If you’re looking for an old one
It’s an old one! I think $500 for a Very Good condition 38 is a pretty nice deal too these days. I might even overlook the stocks because I place a value on Buying Local.

My last auction house purchase, added +30% to the

Yep, this will be my oldest S&W by far. Yes, it's nice to buy local. The LGS owner pulled it out behind the display and said: "This just came in and I thought you might like it." Damn, they know my weakness to well.

30%? Wow, that is a hit...

 

[firefighterjohn]

Barrel lengths?

Another question to everyone that's helped out...Were there more of a certain barrel length made than others? Just curious what you have all seen.

 

[DWalt]

The diamond grips on this one does not have medallions and the upper part is slightly dished. I held it again yesterday and it feels great! Thansk DWalt.

That is a plus for value. Original wood grips from that period are not that common.