How do *you* do your TDA pistol training?

[firescout]

Looking for some tips on getting a more consistent/tighter grouping on the 1-2 shots with DA to SA trigger pull on my S&W 908 Third-Gen. pistol.
For the past year or so, most of my handgun shooting has been with my nicely tuned S&W and Ruger DA revolvers. I shoot them quite well. The other day, I brought out the 908, which I've only shot once or twice in the past two years. BTW, the 908 has a decent tuned/polished trigger mechanism, with a Wolff mainspring. DA pull is 9.5/10 lbs, and SA is just over 5 lbs.

I performed my shooting session at 40 ft, with some 9 round strings. Whoa, that trigger feels really mushy after mainly shooting nice DA revolvers! So I went to an old drill I've used where I shoot a magazine in DA only: Shoot, decock, safety off, shoot, and so on. After a few magazines, my DA groups tightened up, but was still getting fliers. I then changed to a DA/SA 1-2 shot two round drill. My SA shot was fairly centered, but some of the first shots were about 6-7 inches off. After about 100-ish rounds, I was doing better.

My main question here is: how do *you* train/drill for good performance with the 3rd gen pistol? I've done some DA-only dry firing at home, but that can only go so far. How about one of those semi-auto pistol dry firing laser practice kits?

I really don't want my first shot with this gun to be a "warning shot", with the second, third, etc. being the connecting shots...

 

[jt1207]

Being a USPSA shooter, I have it drilled into my head that it's dryfire, dryfire, dryfire. And then dryfire some more. To keep it more interesting, you can buy mini targets to stick to the walls in the room you use. I often have music on too.

Also, you may or may not be doing this already, but you have to grip the gun very hard. You may want to consider taking a day-long course with a USPSA GM. World-class practical shooters grip the gun harder than most people think. I thought I gripped hard until I took a course and then squadded with them over the years.

 

[Hapworth]

Dot Torture for TDA

https://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/TDA-Dot-Torture-target.pdf

 

[URIT]

I'm curious. Where is your finger placement on the trigger when you are pressing the DA shot? Are you staging the shot when pressing the trigger? Or. are you pressing the shot while midway on the exhale of your breath? Do you reposition your trigger finger on the trigger to the pad after pressing the DA shot?

The crease behind your first knuckle should be midpoint on the trigger to optimize the 10# DA shot.

Try practicing at 7 yards using 6" paper plates, 3X5 cards, and 3" Post-its for a change to tighten your groups. Get even closer if you can't tighten it up.

Balance an old casing on the top of the slide when dry firing to judge if you are pressing the trigger without jerking.

 

[AJ]

Being a USPSA shooter, I have it drilled into my head that it's dryfire, dryfire, dryfire. And then dryfire some more. To keep it more interesting, you can buy mini targets to stick to the walls in the room you use. I often have music on too.

Also, you may or may not be doing this already, but you have to grip the gun very hard. You may want to consider taking a day-long course with a USPSA GM. World-class practical shooters grip the gun harder than most people think. I thought I gripped hard until I took a course and then squadded with them over the years.

One of the shooting courses that I went to in the Corps was designed by Jeff Cooper. He trained our instructors at Gunsite. We were taught to grip the gun so hard that your hands begin to shake. Then ease off until the shaking stops. That is how much force/strength should be applied to get a proper grip. Basically we were taught the Gunsite pistol course of the day, five eight hour days of classroom, practice and shooting. We shot up a minimum of 1000 rounds in those five days, usually more ammo was used as our instructors were handing us more ammo to do the drill again.

Practice, practice and more practice. Both dry practice and live fire. That is how folks that are real good get that way.

 

[firescout]

Being a USPSA shooter, I have it drilled into my head that it's dryfire, dryfire, dryfire. And then dryfire some more. To keep it more interesting, you can buy mini targets to stick to the walls in the room you use. I often have music on too.

Also, you may or may not be doing this already, but you have to grip the gun very hard. You may want to consider taking a day-long course with a USPSA GM. World-class practical shooters grip the gun harder than most people think. I thought I gripped hard until I took a course and then squadded with them over the years.

It's interesting you say that. After cleaning and reassembling the pistol, I did some DA dry firing. If I didn't keep my grip iron-firm, the front sight would tip up slightly. Most of my DA fliers were above POA. I don't experience the tip-up when shooting DA revolvers.

 

[firescout]

I'm curious. Where is your finger placement on the trigger when you are pressing the DA shot? Are you staging the shot when pressing the trigger? Or. are you pressing the shot while midway on the exhale of your breath? Do you reposition your trigger finger on the trigger to the pad after pressing the DA shot?

The crease behind your first knuckle should be midpoint on the trigger to optimize the 10# DA shot.

Try practicing at 7 yards using 6" paper plates, 3X5 cards, and 3" Post-its for a change to tighten your groups. Get even closer if you can't tighten it up.

Balance an old casing on the top of the slide when dry firing to judge if you are pressing the trigger without jerking.

As I initially learned, over 35 years ago, DA (revolver) shooting is done with the trigger in the crease behind your 1st knuckle. I've been a DA revolver shooter since then. I occasionally do the empty case or a dime laid on the top strap/barrel rib trigger practice.

I've only had a few centerfire semi-auto pistols in my time: Colt Officers ACP in the mid 1980s to 1989. Glock 17, 1989-1992. S&W 908, 1999-present. A-O 1911A1, 2014-present. I was a really good shooter with the Glock; I chose it over a S&W 3904 at the time, due to a head-to-head between the two. I am also a good shooter with 1911-based pistols.

 

[firescout]

One of the shooting courses that I went to in the Corps was designed by Jeff Cooper. He trained our instructors at Gunsite. We were taught to grip the gun so hard that your hands begin to shake. Then ease off until the shaking stops. That is how much force/strength should be applied to get a proper grip. Basically we were taught the Gunsite pistol course of the day, five eight hour days of classroom, practice and shooting. We shot up a minimum of 1000 rounds in those five days, usually more ammo was used as our instructors were handing us more ammo to do the drill again.

Practice, practice and more practice. Both dry practice and live fire. That is how folks that are real good get that way.

What handguns were you shooting in that course?

The main issue I have with semi-auto dry fire practice is that you either have to thumb back the hammer after each trigger press (SA), work the slide each time to reset the striker, or only do DA *or* SA with a TDA pistol. The only thing I've seen that is close to ideal for creating a realistic DA-SA transition trigger for dry fire, is the CO2-operated CoolFire Trainer. Maybe with the latest in battery/electric technology, someone will create an in-barrel device, used in conjunction with a low-power recoil spring, that will punch the slide back after every firing pin strike?

 

[AJ]

What handguns were you shooting in that course?

The main issue I have with semi-auto dry fire practice is that you either have to thumb back the hammer after each trigger press (SA), work the slide each time to reset the striker, or only do DA *or* SA with a TDA pistol. The only thing I've seen that is close to ideal for creating a realistic DA-SA transition trigger for dry fire, is the CO2-operated CoolFire Trainer. Maybe with the latest in battery/electric technology, someone will create an in-barrel device, used in conjunction with a low-power recoil spring, that will punch the slide back after every firing pin strike?

M1911A1's. It has to be recocked everytime you drop the hammer.

 

[cracker57]

with my decocker CZ's I always start drills DA. If I am working on trigger control its shoot DA,SA, decock DA,SA decock........
Until I get the hang of it my first DA shots are usually low,

 

[firescout]

with my decocker CZ's I always start drills DA. If I am working on trigger control its shoot DA,SA, decock DA,SA decock........
Until I get the hang of it my first DA shots are usually low,

I've never gotten the opportunity to shoot a CZ. I think the high vs low 1st shot (DA) POI is mainly due to a pistol's grip style. The 908 (and 3913 variants) have an abbreviated grip length and flat backstrap. When I DA dry fire the 908, I can see/feel how grip shape/style affects the tip-up tendency.

 

[cracker57]

I've never gotten the opportunity to shoot a CZ. I think the high vs low 1st shot (DA) POI is mainly due to a pistol's grip style. The 908 (and 3913 variants) have an abbreviated grip length and flat backstrap. When I DA dry fire the 908, I can see/feel how grip shape/style affects the tip-up tendency.

if someone ever offers to let you shoot their CZ, don't do it.
If you do you will end up owning one, then 2, this can go on and on....if you want more guns than by all means shoot one. Heck you might end up buying one just by picking it up, CZ'S become part of your hand, they feel great.

 

[firescout]

An update here: I did some comparo gun handling, and noted that my hand favors a handgun grip with an arched lower backstrap. My 1911A1 and DA revolvers have that. So, after doing some searching, I found that the Hogue 3913 grips have that feature, plus a surface that lends itself to obtaining a firm grasp on the gun while shooting it. I'll report back after getting the grips and shooting with them.

 

[AJ]

An update here: I did some comparo gun handling, and noted that my hand favors a handgun grip with an arched lower backstrap. My 1911A1 and DA revolvers have that. So, after doing some searching, I found that the Hogue 3913 grips have that feature, plus a surface that lends itself to obtaining a firm grasp on the gun while shooting it. I'll report back after getting the grips and shooting with them.

I have Hogue grips on both of my J Frames. The texture is the same as the 3913's, I think you will like them.

 

[firescout]

Ok, another update. I obtained and installed a Hogue grip on the 908, and took it shooting last week. I like the grip MUCH better than the standard hard plastic one with the straight backstrap. Most of my shooting was done between 20-40 ft with about 100 rounds. My first shots (DA) grouped better, but generally a bit high. I did a bit of rapid fire at 40 ft with the second and subsequent shots, which showed me I need more live-fire practice with that to achieve better consistency. I'll be back to the ranch next week with another 100+ rounds. I'm going to mainly work in the 20-25 ft distance. All-together, I like the new grip and I hope to hone my TDA accuracy/speed soon.

 

[Brian Parrish]

I started shooting 3rd gen S&W pistols in 2001.
Before that I shot Sig Sauers which are also TDA but mostly a Model 28 Highway Patrolman, and a Model 29 44 Magnum.
I have honestly no recollection of any difference between the first heavier DA trigger squeeze, and the subsequent lighter SA trigger squeeze.
What does make a difference is feeling the trigger finger separately from the grasping reflex of the hand. That is in your brain though, not in the hand.
Another think that helps is to keep my wrists firm for the follow up shots.
Mostly I think it is my eyes that keep the muzzle still during aiming and trigger squeeze. Then it is the eyes that bring the front sight back to the target.
Hickock45 said something to this effect in one of his videos. It does not matter what kind of action the gun has, he shoots them all the same, but his targets are 2 liters and silhouettes, not the 10 ring on paper at 25 yards.
Accuracy comes from the way your eyes use the sights. The trigger squeeze ought not to be pulling the sights off target no matter how long or heavy it is. Now if you are wanting the gun to be more accurate than is theoretically possible with those sights and that barrel length, that is another question.

Please correct me anyone.

Kind Regards!
BrianD