another 1917. More questions

GaryinOKC

GaryinOKC

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Picked this one up today from a friend. Low SN 1917 with issues prompting more questions.

I have been wanting a beater 45 HE to have a short barrel carry type revolver built on. I dont believe in butchering anything with collector value. This one has been buffed and re-blued. The front sight has been modified. The barrel is unnumbered. Action and timing are pretty good.

The SN on the butt is thin but readable as 583. The number on the cylinder is 2583. All the 1917s I have seen have 3 numerals to a line. I see no evidence of a 2 above 583 but it has been buffed. I dont think they could buff out the 2 but cant tell for sure. Thoughts?

The barrel is not numbered. It is an arsenal refinish. I am assuming it MAY be a replacement.

Considering the issues would it be unconscionable to make it a project gun?

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project

I could buy a nice 3 inch for I will put in having this one done. Leaning towards Bobby Tyler or Dave Laubert. Or try to do most myself and send it out for finish work.

22hipower said:
I think that would be a perfect candidate for a project. Where you find someone to do quality work these days for costs less than the price of a used short barreled N frame, I don't know. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457
Click to expand...
 
I don't know which is better or worse: modifying it to suit your likes and needs or "restoring it" to whatever someone's best guess is to original condition.

Either way is just as conscionable since no collector value. If you "restored it", you could be accused of fakery.

I would say it's pretty much just up to you.
 
The full serial number is 2583 an needs to be on the frame! But since 3 digits are showing, no one will question it unless it's someone with knowledge of all the proper serial number locations:

SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 (or 7 – on Triple Lock models only) matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 and some guns as much as 3 years later.
NOTE: Observing serial #s with accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that they are there!

1. Grip frame butt (prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII except I frames) - or fore strap on I frame Regulation Police models and single shots with grips that cover the butt
2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud, (Triple locks have tiny #s stamped in front end of the shroud; sideways/vertical if over 3 numerical digits, otherwise horizontal).
3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight (except the .32 Model 1896 and no doubt a few others)
4. Extractor star – backside (which is actually the side facing the muzzle).
5. Cylinder - rear face
6. Right stock only - on back, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material, stamped after 1929, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)
7. .44 TL models only: rear side of middle lock cam plate (Triple Lock models only)


The 2 has been ground off the butt of the grip frame which is possible because each line of text or numbers is not always stamped evenly and therefore the digits were at different depths.

I agree with you that the barrel was an arsenal replacement and therefore is not restamped with the serial number.

That low of a serial number indicates the hammer and grips are replaced because the original hammer would have concentric grooves on the sides and grips would have concave circles at the tops up to between serial # 15,000 to 20,000.
 
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1917

I hate when I type a long thought out response and it logs me out when I click submit reply.

No number on barrel or grips. In the other places with noted absence of the 2 on the butt. I wasnt aware of the hammer change. I knew the grips weren't correct.

It will never be a collectors item except at online auction. Everything is rare and collectible on gunbroker. I am going to try to make some lemonade with this lemon. Should be a fun project.



Hondo44 said:
The full serial number is 2583 an needs to be on the frame! But since 3 digits are showing, no one will question it unless it's someone with knowledge of all the proper serial number locations:

SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 (or 7 – on Triple Lock models only) matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 and some guns as much as 3 years later.
NOTE: Observing serial #s with accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, and an attitude that they are there!

1. Grip frame butt (prefixed by a letter(s) following WWII except I frames) - or fore strap on I frame Regulation Police models and single shots with grips that cover the butt
2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud, (Triple locks have tiny #s stamped in front end of the shroud; sideways/vertical if over 3 numerical digits, otherwise horizontal).
3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight (except the .32 Model 1896 and no doubt a few others)
4. Extractor star – backside (which is actually the side facing the muzzle).
5. Cylinder - rear face
6. Right stock only - on back, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material, stamped after 1929, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)
7. .44 TL models only: rear side of middle lock cam plate (Triple Lock models only)


The 2 has been ground off the butt of the grip frame which is possible because each line of text or numbers is not always stamped evenly and therefore the digits were at different depths.

I agree with you that the barrel was an arsenal replacement and therefore is not restamped with the serial number.

That low of a serial number indicates the hammer and grips are replaced because the original hammer would have concentric grooves on the sides and grips would have concave circles at the tops up to between serial # 15,000 to 20,000.
Click to expand...
 
I would encourage you NOT to do the K round butt profile to the grip frame as some have. I owned one once and the recoil rolled the gun back in my hand. I sold it after on cylinder full. Another gy just had to have it even after I warned hime (twice). I think he lasted 3 rounds before moving it on again.
 
quinn said:
I would encourage you NOT to do the K round butt profile to the grip frame as some have. I owned one once and the recoil rolled the gun back in my hand. I sold it after on cylinder full. Another gy just had to have it even after I warned hime (twice). I think he lasted 3 rounds before moving it on again.
Click to expand...

Years ago, I took a city issued S&W 1917, cut the barrel to 4" and round butted it. I also added a ramp front sight and an N frame adjustable. The stocks were finger groove rubber Hogues which I took a Dremel to smooth out the grooves.

I didn't think it kicked or rolled much at all.

When I got this 1917 out of the evidence room, it wore an aftermarket nickel finish and the hammer, the trigger and the cylinder release had been gold plated, so, no, I didn't destroy any collector's value.

Oh, and the OP's 1917 has an Augusta Arsenal (located in Georgia) stamp on the frame.
 
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