How did they remove leading in the 1800's ?

[BMur]

Lubricants

Even early reloading kits that date to 1871 came with written instructions that included the use of bullet lubricants.
The earliest kits the instructions were written on the pasteboard lid and recommended the use of Callow, Lard, animal fat to lubricate bullets.
Canned Lard was very common and in use when cartridge pistols were introduced so it was readily Available for reloading even in the 1870’s at remote locations.
So basically bullet lubricants and their required use was common knowledge back then.
You watch some of these modern videos on using reloading tools etc and they often forget to include the bullet lube. A leaded up bore/ forcing cone is the result.

Murph

 

[BMur]

44 American

It’s possible that the 44 American revolver purchased and issued by the US Army may have introduced the first inside lubricated pistol bullet.
I have never seen an original 44 American cartridge manufactured by the Frankford Arsenal in 1871. See photo.

We know for a fact the Frankford Arsenal manufactured hollow based bullets to fill voids from undersized bullets used for oversized bores.

When exactly they adapted the inside lubricated bullet is the question. 1873 for sure but was it a little earlier with the 1000 Americans ordered by the US Army?

You’d have to pop a bullet out of a very expensive antique 44 American Frankford Arsenal manufactured cartridge to confirm it.

Murph

 

[Kinman]

Just for anyone that may be interested in mixing up an excellent long time proven solution for cleaning anything that fires or uses black powder. I mix this up in a one gallon jug so I can shake everything to make sure I get a good mix.
64 oz. Distilled Water (for the reasons mentioned above)
4 oz. Dawn Liquid Dishwashing Soap
3 oz. Water Soluble Oil
I mix the soap and oil together and pour it into the jug, then add a bit of the water to start to get it diluted, adding more until I get a good slurry of oil/soap and water, finally add the rest of the water and give it a good shake, it is going to bubble up, let that settle down and shake it again. I keep it in smaller bottles while using it at the range, etc. always shaking before use. I use a hi-end synthetic water soluble oil designed for the high speed machining business, it is a dark blue.
As an addition, we shoot year round so during freezing temperatures I messed around with substituting RV antifreeze for water, works like a charm. I have been using this formula and passed it onto all of my friends for at least ten years.
I usually use pre-cut cleaning patches and prefer 2.5" round cotton patches, I soak the patches in my solution, squeeze them out and store in a plastic zip lock type bag. At the range I will take enough out for the day and put them between a shop rag, set on the bench and squeeze out as much as possible to avoid soaking my breech with unwanted fluid, they should be damp, not wet. The guys that get into trouble are the guys that put a couple spritzes of fluid on a dry patch, pre-soak and squeeze out the excess. I use 3" patches for large caliber rifles, the 2.5" patches worked great the other day on the 44/40 stuff.
On my big cartridge rifles like the 45/90 Sharps and 38/55 Sharps I use the 3" patches and same solution, wiping between shots, straight down the barrel onto the ground. I usually use a 20:1 lead alloy and my special lube that has been used by folks that are national shooters. I will on the odd occasion see just a very light streak of lead on the wet patch, which leads me to believe my method is superior to blowing down the barrel between shots as some do, that was fine back in the day but wiping between shots removes any fouling and possibility of a lead streak as well as the mineral oil in the cleaning solution provides a better pre lube for the following bullet than anything from your breath.
I added a target I shot with the big Sharps that was shot at 200yds. First five shots were ranging shots, last five were in the X-Ring. I was challenged to prove I could shoot under a minute of angle, my challenger was spotting me and had said if I could shoot a minute of angle or 2" at 200 he would buy a case of my favorite. I shut him up and said "That'll be Crown Royal."

 

[Jim Watson]

When I first got into BPCR, blow-tubing was pretty well standard, but wiping every shot got to be common before I dropped out.
In the first round of Creedmoor matches, the Irish said the Americans' Remington and Sharps breechloaders were no more accurate than their Rigby muzzleloaders but were a lot easier to wipe and load.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I shoot Colt SAA (just like the ones in 4:10 to Yuma) use BHN 10~12 bullets (just like they did in the late 1800's) and push them 800~1000 fps just like they were designed for and have never,ever understood why people complain about leading.

Not sure how this drifted into BP but I'm using smokeless in my Colts. My 1953 Lyman manual recommends 1:40 to 1:20 tin:lead. That's BHN of 8 to 10. I like 1:20 because my lead pot holds 19 lbs of lead and 1 lbs of tin for casting bullets.

 

[Kinman]

Not sure how this drifted into BP but I'm using smokeless in my Colts. My 1953 Lyman manual recommends 1:40 to 1:20 tin:lead. That's BHN of 8 to 10. I like 1:20 because my lead pot holds 19 lbs of lead and 1 lbs of tin for casting bullets.

I could see that working out, what are you using for a lube? I have a few friends that are or in some cases were into Cowboy Action, one was a mounted shooter blasting balloons from horseback. Both of them stayed with black powder because they were also into demonstration and people like to see the smoke from black powder. I've noticed the rifling on the Uberti and other replicas is not quite as pronounced as it is on a Colt or USFA firearm. That would be less inclined to produce a leading problem, in much the same way as 1911 barrels and those of the Model of 1917 have less problem with leading than those of the Model of 1955. There just isn't enough rifling to present a leading problem. Different bullet molds can also give you different result. I've been looking for a three band lube groove bullet in 300gr. for a custom 45/70 I have and just had one custom made by Buffalo Arms. Haven't had a chance to try it out but am looking forward to Springtime. Its a half stock "Gemmer" style Springfield Hawken that a buddy of mine built from scratch. It has a 50/70 Springfield receiver with a heavy Douglas premium barrel, I get just a bit of a lead streak on my patches and have experimented with pure lead, 1:10, 2:10 and have decided to try another lubricant band upon recommendation from one of the gurus I know.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I just use regular lube. Colts, Uberti's, S&W, are just aa few of the guns I shoot BHN 10 bullets. Calibers are 32-20, 38 spl, 38-40, 44-40 and 44 spl.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

It’s possible that the 44 American revolver purchased and issued by the US Army may have introduced the first inside lubricated pistol bullet.
I have never seen an original 44 American cartridge manufactured by the Frankford Arsenal in 1871. See photo.

We know for a fact the Frankford Arsenal manufactured hollow based bullets to fill voids from undersized bullets used for oversized bores.

When exactly they adapted the inside lubricated bullet is the question. 1873 for sure but was it a little earlier with the 1000 Americans ordered by the US Army?

You’d have to pop a bullet out of a very expensive antique 44 American Frankford Arsenal manufactured cartridge to confirm it.

Murph

I've seen some information that negates the idea that the
Frankford Arsenal made hollow based bullets for the early
.44 S&W American. The Frankford Arsenal didn't start making
ammo for the .44 S&W A. until early in 1871. The earliest date
known on ammo boxes from the Frankford Arsenal for .44
S&W A. is April, 1871. These first cartridges were very proble-
matic and frequent misfires were encountered.

AS one can see, this excerpt from The Pitman Notes... the
cross section of the bullet doesn't show any hollow.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[BMur]

Rare Transitions

Research will reveal rare transitions that are not published today or even found in old period catalogs of that era.
Many Smith & Wesson enthusiasts aren’t even aware that all Smith & Wesson revolvers of the early black powder period actually shot outside lubricated bullets. That includes centerfire 32,38,44, & 45 caliber revolvers.

Yet none of these bullet designs are cataloged in early references. Nor are they listed in modern publications. Yet, They do exist!

Photo 1 represents the early outside lubricated bullet design for all Smith and Wesson cf revolvers in 32,38,& 44.

Photo 2 is the extremely rare outside lubricated bullet for the early 45 Schofield.

All found and confirmed in early bullet molds and documented in early Military correspondence.

The only bullets listed in modern references are the later inside lubricated bullets like the more common but scarcely found 45 Schofield mold in photo 3.

This only proves there are a lot of holes In published material. You have to search with an open mind to find these rarities.

Murph

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Lastly, since pure lead melts as 630 degrees F and higher for alloy lead, ...

Actually, the melting point of ALL lead-tin alloys are below the
melting point of pure lead. See the attached diagram.


Cheers!
Webb