4513 TSW…How Hard to Find??

Nalapombu

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Hey all.

I’ve always liked the 3rd generation pistols. I especially liked the TSW variants. I have been thinking a bit on trying something new for CCW. My current 45acp carry gun is a Colt 1911 XSE Stainless Commander. What I’ve been thinking of is the 4513TSW or even the plain 4513. I also think, but am not totally sure the 457 is a cheaper version of the 4513. True or no?

Anyway, I’d like to know how rare or hard to find good examples of the 4513 TSW. Ideally I’d rather have the TSW, but I could settle with a 4513 or a 457.

Anyone care to help with info? I would appreciate it.

If you know of other 45acp carry options, please chime in. I prefer a hammer fired weapon, but light enough to be comfortable to carry.

Thank you for your time and help.

MUHerd.
 
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There are two variations of the 4513TSW. One has no rail and a six round magazine. That's pretty rare. The other has a rail and a seven round magazine. I won't say that they are common, but there are more of them than the first version.

There is no 4513, but there is an all stainless version numbered 4516. There are, I think, three variations of that gun. I don't follow them that closely, but I think all three were to improve reliability.

The 457 is a "Value Line" is best described as a "Value Line" version of the 4513TSW, but only because the frame is alloy, not stainless steel.

All of them have hammers, but they don't as built have hammer spurs. Hammers can be swapped out easily for the full size 45xx versions that do have hammer spurs.

I have two 457s and they are very reliable and accurate handguns. Based on cost alone I'd be looking for one of those as a carry gun.

I'm sure others will chime in with even more detail.
 
The Kahr CW 45 may be up your alley. Very light, easy to conceal, smooth DA trigger, quite reliable. No hammer, but this is more of a belly gun.

John

 
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I believe there is one for sale here on the forum. They are not unobtainium but they definitely don't come around very often. If I didn't spend so much at LGS I would pick up the one the guy has here
 
The 457 is a very underrated gun, IMO. It’s primary drawback to me was the straight backstrap grip, but I was able to adapt a 4506 curved grip pretty easily.
 
People seem to be getting the idea. I've seen some in the $600.00 range lately. I've had several over the years and don't think I paid over $450.00 for any of them.

The 457 is a very underrated gun, IMO. It’s primary drawback to me was the straight backstrap grip, but I was able to adapt a 4506 curved grip pretty easily.
 
4513TSW and 457 and CS45 are Alloy Frames with steel slides. The 4516 (3? versions) are stainless steel frames.

Early 4513TSW (1997-1999) without rail were 6rd magazines with shorter notched grip to accommodate short magazine. These are relatively rare. Magazines are also rare.

Late 4513TSW (2000-2004) were 7rd magazines and most (but not all) had attached rails via 2 rivets. The frames were different in that the grips match the longer 7rd magazines and the geometry where the rails mount was reconfigured to accommodate the rail. Those without rail may have no holes drilled or may have holes plugged with plastic rivets. The rails may be removed for easier holstering but rivets are no longer available.

The 457 (1996-2006) is also a 7rd pistol with an alloy frame. Barrel is listed as 3.75 in. It is available in blue, silver (457S), two-tone Blue over silver, and a Double Action Only (DAO) variant the 457D (rare). The 457 was part of the later Economy line which detractors argue is more square with plastic sights and poorer quality blueing.

The 4516 was made in at least 3 variants all 7rd with Stainless frame and slide. The initial 4516 (no dash) (1988-89) reportedly had feed issues in some (but not all) pistols.

As a result the 4516-1 (1989-92) changed overall geometry and both internal features (feed ramp?) and the magazine geometry (changes at top of metal tube and change to yellow follower - mags were generally marked "for 4516-1 only")

The 4516-1 changes apparently did not address all feed issues (operator issues??) and the 4516-2 (1993-1997) made further changes including going to a dual recoil spring and further magazine geometry changes (magazines with black follower used in all later 7rd versions including 4513TSW and 457).

A 4th version (potentially the same as the 4516-2 but not marked with any dash number on frame) referred to as "-3" was sold after 1997. The pistols are not marked with dash but have "03" on box end label. They are distinguishable from the early 4516 no dash by exterior geometry and dual recoil spring.

It appears many of the earlier 4516 and some of the 4516-1 pistols were retrofitted with the smaller diameter recoil guide rod and dual recoil spring setup using a hat shaped bushing added at the front of the slide to accommodate the smaller guide rod. I can only account for 2 4516 no dash with single recoil spring compared to 4 with the adapter and dual recoil spring vs 1 4516-1 mod for dual spring and 12 with original single spring.

All of the above appear to have the 3.75 in barrel with steel slides. (Some of the earlier box ends show a 3.5 in barrel, but it is believed that the 4516 and 4513 barrels were always 3.75 in. - more on this in a separate thread).

The CS45 Chief's Special (1998-2006) is a 6rd 3.25in barrel Alloy frame pistol based on the Value Line pistols. It was made in Blue and Silver, with a carbon steel or stainless steel slide respectively. It was also made in a Double Action Only (DAO) CS45D version (rare).

Potentially the 457 and CS45 and variations of the 4516 are most readily found but the 4513TSW 7rd with rail are also out there.

The 7rd magazines exist in 3 variations - the original 4516 with Orange follower, the 4516-1 with Yellow follower, and the 4516-2 (and later 4513TSW 7rd and 457) with Black follower. Theoretically the black follower mags are backwards compatible but the Orange and Yellow follower mags should only be used as marked - but others report using all 3 mag variants interchangeably with no problems. https://smith-wessonforum.com/smith...-magazines.html?highlight=4516+mag+variations

As I recall the CS45 6rd mags are slightly different from the early 4513TSW 6rd magazines.
 

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I carried a 457 for years. Excellent firearm, even if considered to be a "Value Line" variant. My current carry is the SW1911 Pro Series in .45 ACP. It's a subcompact 1911 and it is awesome! Might be something you'd like since you're used to a 1911.
 

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I don't know much about the 4513TSW, but I do quite enjoy my 457S. The only complaint I have is how smooth the front strap is, which is an easy fix. For $425 at a local gun show, I couldn't pass it up.
 
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I have owned most of the smaller versions of the third gen 45's. Check this forum, other forums and the national auction sites. You should also check out local gun sales web sites, local dealers and any gun shows.

I think my favorite was my 4513 TSW. I also really liked my 457 but could not live with the poor finish. Good luck.
 
That's a good price for a 457S. I forget the number, but they made a lot fewer of them than the black version.



I don't know much about the 4513TSW, but I don't quite enjoy my 457S. The only complaint I have is how smooth the front strap is, which is an easy fix. For $425 at a local gun show, I couldn't pass it up.
 
TSWs have always been harder for me to find...

All of the above have the 3.5 in barrel with steel slides except the 457 which has a 3.75 in barrel.

As discussed in your other thread this appears to be a labeling discrepancy that went on for years at S&W.

All the compact 45s (except the CS45) were really 3.75" barrels when measured crown to end of hood. Actual rifled barrel, chamber ledge to crown, is ~2.75" long.
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My pre-rail 4553TSW (Nov-1999) is labeled as 3.5" but actually measures 3.75"
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As I recall the CS45 6rd mags are slightly different from the early 4513TSW 6rd magazines.

Yes, the CS45 mags had a vertical detent notch (the red line) that helped hold the top round in place under recoil & ejection.

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I believe there actually were Models 4513 produced. But, they came out of the Performance Center under model names (not numbers) that made them cost a bunch. 😂
 
Anyway, I’d like to know how rare or hard to find good examples of the 4513 TSW. Ideally I’d rather have the TSW, but I could settle with a 4513 or a 457.

Well as was already mentioned, there is a 7rnd railed one being offered here. AND there was a price drop.

Depending on which 4513TSW you are thinking about makes a difference. The original first run 6 rnd non-railed ones show up less than the 7 rnd railed ones do and the 7rnd non-railed railed ones are out there too. Good examples aren’t that hard to find. Good examples for a “reasonable” price can be hard to find.

4513 Shorty 45’s and Shorty 45’s MKII’s are out there too and as Jeppo said they are a bit more scarce and more costly.

The 457S is a great option. In theory it should be cheaper than the TSW’s/PC’s and the wear of the ****** black finish 457 isn’t an issue.

I have a few of the 4513 examples and the 457S is a really fine pistol even though it was/is a “Value Line” offering.

Jim
 
The early 4513TSW is what I have had since early 2000's and it is a wonderful firearm I will never part with. It failed to feed once in the first 50 rounds but it has never had a malfunction of any kind since. Years ago I was a certified instructor for Illinois CCW classes. That was before I moved out of that horrible state. I would stress weapon choice should be toward reliability first and foremost. My 4513TSW, 4506 and mt 645 will all feed empty brass working the slide by hand or firing at the range they always worked. Jim.
 
I found one about 6 or 7 years ago for $350 in the used case at Cabela’s of all places. Just the pistol and one mag, nothing else, 95 percent condition. It was the no rail, flush fit mag version. I bought it knowing they were uncommon. After shooting it a few times, i decided I didn’t really care for it that much. Eventually sold it for $800 to a guy who was happy to get it.
 
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