Korth vs S&W? Are they worth the money?

[Photog]

First of all a safety on a revolver, IMO, is for those that may be "a can short of a six pack". Secondly, again IMO, the only high priced revolver I would own is a Freedom Arms. They are a very fine firearm.

 

[Onomea]

First of all a safety on a revolver, IMO, is for those that may be "a can short of a six pack"...

Priceless!

The doohickey to the side of the hammer is the cylinder release.

 

[Daimler1989]

One of the original qualities that Willi Korth sought for his revolvers is that they would be long term investments, primarily for the domestic German market and also Europe.

Americans are accustomed to living in an “instant gratification” society, with an emphasis on easy aquisition of “stuff”.

How many of you S&W guys have only ONE revolver, and that being your primary day-to-day shotting iron?
Not many, I bet.
IF there are any such members here, how many of you shoot that ONE revolver 100-200 rounds per week?
Anyone?

European gun ownership is an onerous venture. Every step is difficult.
-Imagine having to first join a gun club, as a prerequisite to applying for a permit to own a handgun.
-Imagine that, too, you are required by the club and your country that you must be an active member that participates in a set number of matches and/or qualifications to maintain your membership and permit. Permits and membership require annual renewal, or they are cancelled and you lose your guns.
-You might very well be allowed one centerfire handgun. What would you select that would stand up to the above qualifications?
Keep in mind that if you need service or parts you must usually acquire a special permit to ship your gun to a gunsmith. There might only be one guy who fixes all the guns of a particular brand in your country.
But, you say,”I can do my own work.” OK, how do you get parts? Do you think S&W or Brownell’s is going to mail handgun parts to your foreign address??

Korths and Manurhins are expensive for a reason. Every part is typically machined from very hard steels. Those parts are then carefully fitted so they don’t work against each other. There’s no room for the small, inexpensive “expendable” parts intended to take the load, periodically break, then quickly replaced, as is typical in America.
Unlike, say, a Colt Python (as nice as it may be in its own context), you don’t have be afraid of shooting your Korth, and shooting it A LOT!

Presumably, some of you know the story about the legendary GIGN, the elite French SWAT unit? They train every day, firing 150-200 shots of full power 357 magnum a day. Very quickly, they found out the S&W M19 was not up to the job.
Along came the Manurhin mr73.
The original Korth fulfilled that same role for the serious civilian market.

Just something to keep in mind before disparaging Korths or Manurhins as nothing more than expensive, luxury toys for rich guys.

*ADDENDUM: I didn’t intend this to be a response to the post immediately above mine, as I didn’t read it until I had already submitted the above post.
Nonetheless, it’s ironic to note that it is a counterpoint worth possibly considering.

As for the market, the demand for Korths has always exceeded the supply. Cabela’s will never offer them as a Black Friday “doorcrasher” special.

good points on gun laws in Europe. but another quality reason esp. for german/austrian made guns is the country's usual overengineering (even more so with swiss made guns). this is simply a typical industrial tradition: technical products, as good as it gets, production costs are secondary.

as a shooting instructor I had a client who took lessons from me with his newly acquired Korth, IIRC a Super Sport something. Fine gun, very accurate (when I shot it), well made, but quite heavy even for me. He had to take it back to Korth several times because of technical issues and in the end got his money back. this can also happen with expensive guns. I shooting buddy of mine has the same model with a 9mm-cylinder. I outshoot him regularly with one of my Model 27 which I bought in the old days for only 10 % of the price of his Korth.

 

[Valmet]

They definitely aren’t to me. I’ve handled them and they’re obviously well built and very smooth revolvers but I prefer Smiths.

 

[Muffin Man]

Thank you all for your helpful thoughts. I’ve sort of been down this road with pursuing the best guitar I could get. In the end, I realized I basically paid 3x more for 3% better. I ended up selling my higher end guitars. I suspect it may be similar with Korths. But, you know those people that say, “being rich isn’t that great”? And we can somewhat believe that. But, I’d like to see for myself I can go either way one of these days.

 

[6string]

good points on gun laws in Europe. but another quality reason esp. for german/austrian made guns is the country's usual overengineering (even more so with swiss made guns). this is simply a typical industrial tradition: technical products, as good as it gets, production costs are secondary.

as a shooting instructor I had a client who took lessons from me with his newly acquired Korth, IIRC a Super Sport something. Fine gun, very accurate (when I shot it), well made, but quite heavy even for me. He had to take it back to Korth several times because of technical issues and in the end got his money back. this can also happen with expensive guns. I shooting buddy of mine has the same model with a 9mm-cylinder. I outshoot him regularly with one of my Model 27 which I bought in the old days for only 10 % of the price of his Korth.

Maybe I should qualify my comments by emphasizing that I my knowledge is primarily with the Korth revolvers built under the watch of Willi Korth. However, it’s curious that all of the criticism I’ve heard about contemporary Korth products is of the “I know a guy” variety.
An anology could be made for guns bearing the Hämmerli name. Those built by the original Lenzberg firm, being amongst the finest of its genre, have nothing in common with the stuff Umarex sells under that grand old name. I’ve not heard that Korth has suffered similarly.
And, while no firearms manufacturer has control over the marksmanship abilities of its clients, I can tell you as a competitive shooter in International ISSF events, Korth and Manurhin are well represented for centerfire events, even today with shooters using long out of production masterpieces upon which those companies built their reputation.
Korth specifications were, to the last of my understanding, that there would be no loss of accuracy or performance even after firing 50,000 rounds. Indeed, there are documented examples well into the hundreds of thousands of rounds.
If you calculate what that means, dollarwise, at today’s prices, maybe a Korth could be considered a bargain?
The truth is, if you shoot a LOT, especially competitively, the gun is one of the least expensive parts of the equation.

PS: “ technical products, as good as it gets, production costs are secondary.”
How is that a problem? Sometimes, that’s what it takes, or at least, what some customers want. To each their own.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Ya know...If a S&W revolver is cared for it can last and function for several lifetimes...Cuz I have some in my safe like that....Besides being kinda ugly and high priced I do not se one(korth) ever residing here.

 

[Nomadmax]

First of all a safety on a revolver, IMO, is for those that may be "a can short of a six pack". Secondly, again IMO, the only high priced revolver I would own is a Freedom Arms. They are a very fine firearm.

Quoted for posterity.

Hello kettle, it's the pot......

 

[CH4]

Marketing notwithstanding, as with a Rolex, the Korth is way over engineered and priced for its intended purpose; many claim you’re just paying for bragging rights. I agree. Out of the box, the smoothness of the Korth’s trigger compares more closely with a Python than a S&W or Ruger, but they all get the job done just fine, some for considerably less. To my eye, the Korth has a more utilitarian look as compared to the pleasing lines of a Smith and especially the Python.

 

[8shot]

In my world, the main event for a DA revolver is - how good is the DA trigger pull? I had the opportunity a couple of years ago, to test 4 Korths and 4 Manhurins with a trigger pull gauge. They were all at 8-1/2 to 9-1/2 lb. for the DA. S&W is around 12 lb. DA.

The Euro guns are finely crafted and beautiful to look at. Out of the box they are better than a Smith out of the box (new). They do not perform any better than a S&W that is mechanically correct.

An S&W with a good quality action job will have a 6 to 6-1/2 lb. DA. and be easier and more enjoyable to shoot with. Bottom line is - you can have a better gun (by my standards) by getting a Smith and having it upgraded than by getting a multi thousand dollar Euro gun.

I had a Manurhin 38spl with optional 9mm cylinder. The 9mm cylinder would put 100gr JHP bullets in 1" 50 yard groups.

The Manurhin action was really slick, the rebound slide actually had "tiny wheels" that reduced friction on double action travel.

Like the Ruger, Colt, Taurus and other revolvers they may be as accurate as a S&W but my hand loves the K and L frame for fit. Those other revolvers frame design just don't have grip options that fit me like the open backstrap of the S&W revolvers.

 

[jakerudy]

"Thank you all for your helpful thoughts. I’ve sort of been down this road with pursuing the best guitar I could get. In the end, I realized I basically paid 3x more for 3% better. I ended up selling my higher end guitars. I suspect it may be similar with Korths. But, you know those people that say, “being rich isn’t that great”? And we can somewhat believe that. But, I’d like to see for myself I can go either way one of these days."

Compared to many other luxury items or the finer things in life the price of entry for a Korth is minimal. I can't afford a lot of high end products but consider this a chance to taste one of the best made. And what better finer thing to experience than a firearm?

 

[Breakaway500]

1 Korth or 4 S&Ws. No contest for me.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

^^^^THIS!^^^^

 

[sigp220.45]

1 Korth or 4 S&Ws. No contest for me.

Same here. Now I just have to figure out which 4 S&Ws to sell……..

 

[Bald1]

Ya know...If a S&W revolver is cared for it can last and function for several lifetimes...Cuz I have some in my safe like that....Besides being kinda ugly and high priced I do not se one(korth) ever residing here.

Ugly is right. I’m not paying $6k for something that resembles a High Standard. Same reason I don’t like double action Rugers. Clunky and ugly next to a Colt or S&W.

 

[Yendor357]

To be clear, the old Pythons were prone to premature wear.

I asked my Gunsmith which would wear out first, being fed a steady diet of Magnums, an older (good) Model 27 or a new Python? I remember a long silence. Then he said ultimately, the 27, maybe.
The new Pythons are in good company as far as durability.
I asked him if the new Pythons were in his opinion a “heavy duty” revolver. No hesitation this time. Yes.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

First of all a safety on a revolver, IMO, is for those that may be "a can short of a six pack". Secondly, again IMO, the only high priced revolver I would own is a Freedom Arms. They are a very fine firearm.

Looks like a gear shift on a python.

 

[cd228]

When I was stationed in Germany, on of the shooting club memebers brought his Korth (Sport Model IIRC, now called the Ranger?) to our monthly range day and permitted me to run some rounds through it. The trigger pull was extremely smooth, and the gun was well built, though a little unorthodox looking with rails on it. The trigger was as nice if not nicer then my colt python and certainly better then my 686-3. I would certainly buy a Korth with someone else's money. But, I'm a Casio G shock kind of dude, so my 686 weekly/monthly shooter is fine by me.

I will point out that pride of ownership is a thing and while it's not a big deal to me, I don't look down on some one who wants to spend their hard earned money on nice things.

I may have told a German woman that I'd proppose marriage if she had a Korth, but alas she had an EAA.

 

[ladder13]

Same thing with a gussied up 80k+ GMC Denali pickup truck when a Ford Maverick does the same thing, trips to Home Depot.
I can count on one hand the number of times that I’ve seen an expensive pickup with dirt on it.

 

[hdfinder47]

Looks like a gear shift on a python.

Once again - it's not a safety. It is a cylinder release and it's very well placed and functional.