Gen 3 DAO conversion to SA/DA?

[retired_11b]

I took this 5943 in as a trade along with a 586-3 from a good customer of mine that had become a friend. He had just retired from law enforcement and wanted to move on to something new. He passed at the beginning of last month and now I'd rather keep them instead of selling them. As much as I love Gen 3s, I can't stand DAO. Is there any way to convert the 5943 to sa/da? I have no problem sourcing the parts if needed.

Pictures in link. For some reason, I can't upload them.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[JohnHL]

I took this 5943 in as a trade along with a 586-3 from a good customer of mine that had become a friend. He had just retired from law enforcement and wanted to move on to something new. He passed at the beginning of last month and now I'd rather keep them instead of selling them. As much as I love Gen 3s, I can't stand DAO. Is there any way to convert the 5943 to sa/da? I have no problem sourcing the parts if needed.

Pictures in link. For some reason, I can't upload them.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Convert your 5943 from DAO to TDA (DA/SA)?

Short answer: No

Long answer: It would be possible to swap the DAO trigger, hammer, and sear in the frame with the TDA parts.

If it is an early model 5943, it probably won't have a wide enough slot in the frame to mount the TDA sear release lever.

A later frame is machined to accept the sear release lever.

The 5943 slide is not machined to accept the TDA manual safety body.

While a 5906 TDA slide (with manual safety) will probably fit, it is noticeably shorter than the DAO slide and will look strange.

As folks like to say, "The juice is not worth the squeeze!"

Sorry.

John

 

[retired_11b]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be keeping the garbage trigger. Not the end of the world.

 

[toddstang]

I hate DAO automatics myself.
May as well have a revolver.

 

[retired_11b]

I hate DAO automatics myself.
May as well have a revolver.

I completely agree. The 586-3 that I got from him has a much better trigger. I figure I'll keep both of them and only let them go if either of his daughters want them. One is also LEO and the other is a Marine so I figure they may want them eventually since they were only 2 duty weapons that he carried throughout his career. It just blows that he wasn't able to enjoy his retirement.

 

[stansdds]

I hate DAO automatics myself.
May as well have a revolver.

I completely agree. The 586-3 that I got from him has a much better trigger. I figure I'll keep both of them and only let them go if either of his daughters want them. One is also LEO and the other is a Marine so I figure they may want them eventually since they were only 2 duty weapons that he carried throughout his career. It just blows that he wasn't able to enjoy his retirement.

To each his own. I like the DAO trigger in my Model 6946. It is nearly identical in pull weight and pull length as that of my other carry gun, a Model 640-1.

 

[chief38]

I'd never carry, buy or own a DAO revolver. I can't even understand why people convert to and restrict themselves to DAO. If you want to only fire DA, just squeeze the trigger! There COULD BE times that warrant a cocked, carefully aimed SA shot and with a standard configuration revolver you have that option. When people actually opt for a DAO revolver I just can't get inside their head and figure out why.

 

[Brian Parrish]

I'd never carry, buy or own a DAO revolver. I can't even understand why people convert to and restrict themselves to DAO. If you want to only fire DA, just squeeze the trigger! There COULD BE times that warrant a cocked, carefully aimed SA shot and with a standard configuration revolver you have that option. When people actually opt for a DAO revolver I just can't get inside their head and figure out why.

I understand two reasons:

One is departmental safety. Some boss or policy maker thinks that if you can cock it then some lawyer will sue, claiming that the shoot was unintentional. There is no reason for us to limit ourselves in this way, but there are many people that insist that whatever the cops do must be right, including Mas Ayoob. In my area some like to carry a Centennial in their left front pocket. A backup is allowed but not required. Two reloads are required for the sidearm and if you carry a backup, you must also carry two reloads for it too.

The other is dry fire practice. People want the trigger to feel the same all the time. I think you are right about just squeezing the trigger, but I understand that some people are getting the DA trigger worked down and this results in the SA trigger becoming too light, a "hair trigger". If the prosecutor can say in court that your gun had a hair trigger, then you will be convicted! Also, after you have practiced dry firing many thousands of times, your finger is strong and there is no advantage to a lighter trigger.

None of this makes any difference for me. I get the same score no matter the action of the gun.
Glock? Same score.
1911? Same score.
SAA?
DA Revolver?
TDA Semi? All the same score.
I can see a big difference at 25 yards with a longer bbl, because of the sight radius, and I can see a difference in the quality of ammo. Some manufacturers hire a blind disabled person to throw random amounts of gunpowder in one case after another. Your trigger finger cannot do anything to fix that!

Best Regards!
BrianD

 

[GaryS]

I don't carry a DAO 3rd Gen, but might at some point.

Back in 2021 I took the qualification course for SC and NC carry permits. Part of that is a live fire exam similar to a LE qualification course.

I decided to bring my 6946 with me even though I had only fired it once before. That was right after I bought it.

I ended up acing the live fire course. The trigger on that was so smooth and it was very much like firing a K frame. Which was the design goal I believe.

Bottom line is that people should carry what they are comfortable with.

To each his own. I like the DAO trigger in my Model 6946. It is nearly identical in pull weight and pull length as that of my other carry gun, a Model 640-1.

 

[rosewood]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be keeping the garbage trigger. Not the end of the world.

I installed a reduced power main spring on my 4053 and it really improved trigger pull. Still 100% reliable also.

Rosewood

 

[Sixgun100]

I'd never carry, buy or own a DAO revolver. I can't even understand why people convert to and restrict themselves to DAO. If you want to only fire DA, just squeeze the trigger! There COULD BE times that warrant a cocked, carefully aimed SA shot and with a standard configuration revolver you have that option. When people actually opt for a DAO revolver I just can't get inside their head and figure out why.

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree. In my opinion, firing a double action revolver in single action may be a good idea in certain circumstances, such as target practice or hunting. But, not in a self defense situation. As a retired Police Administrator, I would not have wanted an Officer pointing his service revolver at a Suspect in single action. Too much margin for error. There is a reason departments issued DAO revolvers. I don’t own a DAO pistol. But, think the design has merit, with a decent trigger. It’s like a double action revolver with a 13-15 round capacity. I would like to give one a try. Again, just my opinion. Best regards

 

[chief38]

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree. In my opinion, firing a double action revolver in single action may be a good idea in certain circumstances, such as target practice or hunting. But, not in a self defense situation. As a retired Police Administrator, I would not have wanted an Officer pointing his service revolver at a Suspect in single action. Too much margin for error. There is a reason departments issued DAO revolvers. I don’t own a DAO pistol. But, think the design has merit, with a decent trigger. It’s like a double action revolver with a 13-15 round capacity. I would like to give one a try. Again, just my opinion. Best regards

A self defense situation could be someone shooting at you from 15-20 yards away from behind a car, supermarket aisle, building or whatever. While as a civilian that might be rare, a longer shot can be accurately placed in SA mode a whole lot better than in DA mode - at least for the average shooter. While I don't see a problem with lightening a target only or competition only revolver, I never lighten up carry guns - just smooth and wear them in by practicing with thousands of rounds so I would not ever have to worry about the SA trigger pull being too light.

20 years ago when I routinely carried a M60-7 and was at our 100 yard range, one of my friends bet me a Pizza Pie I could not hit a red clay bird at that distance placed with it being placed on the ground. He said I could take all 5 rounds in the cylinder and shoot in SA mode. I took his bet and on the 3rd shot I hit the clay. Part Kentucky windage and elevation, part shooting skill and part luck, but I aimed about 3-4 feet high and walked in the rounds SA mode. I then asked him if I could also order pepperoni on it- HA! Could I have made that shot DAO? I don't really know. Not a great example to compare to a SD shooting, I know, but shooting a revolver in SA mode can be extremely accurate, even out at 100 yards.

Not gonna argue with guys here, I just don't personally understand why (other than by Agency rules) someone would change a perfectly good revolver to DAO mode without being ordered to.

 

[KurtC]

The first autos I used were 1911's in the Army. I was stationed in Germany when the Army began seriously considering the Beretta, so I picked up a 92SB to see what the fuss was about.

During the first trip to the range, I decided that DA/SA was about the silliest thing ever invented. One of the Germans told me it was invented in Europe in the 1930's, when officers started carrying pistols as a sign of status. They weren't trusted carrying c0cked and lock, but couldn't hit anything repeatedly with double action.

I was thrilled when Beretta came out with the DAO 92D in 1991, and have qualified with and carried one ever since. I also use their DAO Mini Cougar and PX4 in .45acp.

Smith and Wesson came out with their DAO 45's around the same time. I qualified with and carried the 4556 and 4546 for a good number of years. I consider them to be the finest S&W autos ever produced.

I'm a firm advocate of defensive pistols having just on trigger pull, either DAO or SAO. I still qualify with and carry a Colt Government Model when I'm feeling nostalgic.

I still remember guys with DA/SA pistols forgetting to dec0ck and then holstering c0cked pistols during qualifications.

 

[WR Moore]

While I was still working DAO S&W 59XXs were available cheap. Several guys bought them and then came around for trigger work. About the only issue they had was some rather length overtravel after they broke. A trigger stop inserted into the trigger solved that issue.

 

[m.p.driver]

4553

I have a 4553 that i bought for a song from Buds years ago, have never liked the setup on it, the lack of having the ability to pull the trigger a second time on a round that didn't go off has always been irritating. I gave thought multiple times to getting replacement internals to change it to DA/SA but i eventually bought a Sig P239 and the Smith went into the safe

 

[LVSteve]

I hate DAO automatics myself.
May as well have a revolver.

Remind me again of how many revolvers are available with 15-round capacity.

 

[rosewood]

Who would have thought DAO vs TDA would/could be such a contentious subject. It really is personal preference after all.

Rosewood

 

[toddstang]

Remind me again of how many revolvers are available with 15-round capacity.

Not the point.
You expect the trigger pull on a revolver to be like lifting a brick with your finger tip.
Not so much with a semi auto.
I get the fact that fat unstable fingers cant handle any trigger weight under 6 pounds. I trained with people like that who would shoot the bench or the roof or almost blow their foot off because they transitioned from a 66-4 to a 5906 and it took me awhile to get used to it myself.
I prefer the easy pull of the semi DA SA.
Opinions are like *****holes, everybody has one.

 

[Doug M.]

The DAO service revolver came about in part because of the knowingly frivolous prosecution of the Miami officer. Ayoob has written about it. Precluding that kind of claim is important for both criminal and civil litigation. If I were to buy a 3rd generation, I suspect I would prefer a DAO.