Welding quality new and old

[Rich Richardson]

I was picking up parts for my Kawasaki and took a look at the new bikes. My attention was drawn to a weld on the swing arm most likely done by a robot.
First photo is from a 2025 ZX14.
Second photo is from my 2011 ZX14.

 

[Kinman]

Although I am not a professional welder I have done plenty of it in my life for personal use and in some cases stuck things together for others. I took a course taught by the local community college and learned the ropes with a TIG machine. In my opinion that first welding job was done by someone that knew their way around a TIG machine but being human and probably on a time schedule could only do so much, the second set was probably done by a robot with a tig machine, as such is probably superior to the first weld, deep penetration with a TIG machine is not as important as consistency, deep penetration can result in weakening the surrounding metal, it will fail before the weld does. You want that balance that in my opinion looks more like the second weld. One of the first TIG welded things I saw was a bicycle frame that was made from polished aluminum tubing, it was a $1.5K dollar bike back in the 80's and looked like something the Terminator would ride. All of the welds looked like a stack of dimes laid over, it was beautiful and peaked my interest in TIG welding which to my mind is more of an art form than any other type of welding, I've seen some creative stuff done with stick, and heli-arc but never anything that approaches the structural beauty of TIG. Just a layman's opinion...I have a few friends that put their life's work behind a welding mask, they will argue about the work they did on nuclear power plants where every weld was x-rayed and it was done with stick.

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[Rustyt1953]

I bought this for my 17 yo grandson. Logan has been accepted into next year's two year welding/metal fabrication program at Butler Tech CC.

 

[LVSteve]

Buddy back in England had a very descriptive term for the welding in the first picture. It involved the excrement of hens.

 

[llowry61]

The only welding I have ever done was in shop class. We had to fuse 2 pieces of metal 2 ways. 1 with Oxy Acetylene torch which I think was brazing and one with stick welder. I got it done but it wasn't pretty, and it took me a long time to get one of each. I knew right then that welding was an art.

Running a puddle like pic 2 or those aluminum cans is really beautiful work.

 

[llowry61]

The only welding I have ever done was in shop class. We had to fuse 2 pieces of metal 2 ways. 1 with Oxy Acetylene torch which I think was brazing and one with stick welder. I got it done but it wasn't pretty, and it took me a long time to get one of each. I knew right then that welding was an art.

Running a puddle like pic 2 or those aluminum cans is really beautiful work.

My engineer dads favorite saying was, "it doesn't have to look pretty it just has to work".

I liked things to look good. Used to drive him crazy when I would clean things up before working on them. He said you're just going to get them dirty again immediately after the repair. He was keen on maintenance but could not have cared less about aesthetics.

 

[Skeet 028]

The best welding brazing etc was done by an old time Blacksmith/machinist near Rock Hall Md. I had him replace the teeth missing from my oyster tongs. 10 years later his repairs were still there. I also had a friend that was an amazing welder/etc. He was truly an artist. Could not read or write. A true sufferer of PTSD from Nam...and it finally did him in with Alcohol. He fixed all my farm machinery. Still miss ol Whiskers. He was truly born 150 years too late. He would have made a great mountain man

 

[kev74]

Both welds look adequate to me.

The "stacking dimes" bead is fashionable, but sometimes done more for aesthetics.

 

[BC38]

Buddy back in England had a very descriptive term for the welding in the first picture. It involved the excrement of hens.

We always called them booger welds...
One guy in our 4WD club did such a sloppy job of booger welding that another guy pronounced them "welds by Hellen Keller".
The poor guy with the sloppy welding skills was forever after tagged as "Helen".

 

[jeffrefrig]

I retired as a steamfitter and never tried more than twice to weld. I could make darned near any commercial/industrial AC or refrigerating & heating
piece of equipment work, and that suits me fine! If pipe didn't have threads and needed welding, get someone else!

 

[GnarlsR2]

Awe yes… welding… that’s fun.

I was 13 years old when my brother-in-law brought me a homemade buzz box, a welding helmet, some metal, and 10 lbs. of welding rods. He showed me how to strike an arc and run a bead, then said “Do it like that.”

My brother-in-law worked for the Corps of Engineers, and was one of the top welders in the country. They sent him all over to do very technical welding projects on dams.

My Mom was always yelling at me because after about 5 minutes of welding the circuit breaker would pop, and I’d have to quit.

I got really good running a good-looking bead with a stick.

Fast forward to my sophomore year in high school…. I took a shop class in stick welding. A MIG or TIG was not an option. The first project was welding 3 6” pieces of ½” steel, running beads flat. At the end of class that day the instructor held up the metal piece and asked “Who did this piece?”, and before I can say anything a butthead senior said “That’s mine!”. It was mine. I never said a word. The instructor “This is how you get an A in this class.”

I have little MIG, and the hardest garage welding I’ve ever done is exhaust tubing while its on the vehicle!

 

[Old 44 Guy]

I once worked Saturdays in a muffler shop. Gas welding only and over head. I still have the burn scars on my chest to prove it.

 

[Martyk]

The first weld appears to be a manual weld performed using the MIG (metal inert gas) process. This process uses a continuously fed solid wire electrode with a shielding gas surrounding the weld puddle to protect it from the atmosphere. The second weld was done using the same process, only this time it was automated, robotic, if you prefer. Also, the term "Heliarc" was a patented trade name for the TIG process, used by Union Carbide years ago, IIRC.

 

[NYlakesider]

I was picking up parts for my Kawasaki and took a look at the new bikes. My attention was drawn to a weld on the swing arm most likely done by a robot.
First photo is from a 2025 ZX14.
Second photo is from my 2011 ZX14.

That first weld would get someone fired on most of the jobs I have been on! (Retired pipefitter here)

 

[Nevada Ed]

It looks to me like the wrong size wire was used in that weld,
for the coverage area, that needed to be filled or joined.

I also think that the welding plan and postioning, was not thought out
or was done by some one or thing with poor Data.

Good day.

 

[Kinman]

I mentioned having a couple of buddies that worked in the welding field their entire lives. One of them had the other as an apprentice and has many things to day about his abilities when he came on the job. One of the memories I thought was funniest was "When he came to work with me I've seen peanut butter sandwiches stuck together better than his welds."
I bought a little Hobart Handler that is very similar to the MIG unit you bought for your grandson. Truly handy little machines that run off 110/120, he should have alot of fun. My first project when I brought mine home was to build a welding cart to carry everything I needed on, I had a decent pile of scrap and just needed to buy a set of casters.

 

[Martyk]

That first weld would get someone fired on most of the jobs I have been on! (Retired pipefitter here)

Unless he was related to the Business Agent.

 

[Ματθιας]

My dad was a machinist, carman, tool and die maker for the AT&SF in Belen and ABQ. He did sheet metal, too. He could make and/or fix just about anything.

I remember when I was a kid my dad and a couple of other workmates were doing side jobs in the neighborhood making wrought iron window bars, gates enclosed porches and such. One time hey had a bet, for beer, of who could weld aluminum cans - don't remember who won but it wasn't the tops and bottoms they were welding, but the sides of the cans flattened out. At the time I was so young that I didn't realize just how much skill it took - but it's impressive! They had some skills! They're all gone now.

I have all of his tools - If I only knew how to use them like he did!

As an aside, I remember watching "forged and fire" with my dad when it first came out. He thought that show was hilarious! He was always commenting how dangerous and careless they were. There was one show where one guy didn't know how to properly use a file - my dad turned the TV off.

 

[somorris]

The weld on your older bike is definitely much better, Rich. It looks to me like the 2025 bike had some kind of malfunction of the (likely) robotic controlled weld machine. I wonder if that was just on the bike you saw or is typical of the new bikes. Good catch seeing that.