Accuracy issues with the 39-2?

[sjmjax]

I have two model 39-2. One purchased new and one used.

Neither has been shot much. Although the used one shows some external wear. The gun shows very little signs of use.
All internals are in great shape, barrels pristine, barrel muzzle to slide fit very good.

Both group awful. I’m not going to win any regional bullseye competitions. But, I’m generally a good shot.

Groups with other 9mm pistols, same range & ammo consistently shoot groups half the size or better.

M&P, 952, fat Albert 59, HiPowers, even an antique Astra 600 all performed better.

So, do model 39-2’s have a reputation for accuracy issues? Anything done about it at reasonable cost?

Or, is it me, the ammo or something else?

Thanks for your input!

 

[BE Mike]

I have two model 39-2. One purchased new and one used.

Neither has been shot much. Although the used one shows some external wear. The gun shows very little signs of use.
All internals are in great shape, barrels pristine, barrel muzzle to slide fit very good.

Both group awful. I’m not going to win any regional bullseye competitions. But, I’m generally a good shot.

Groups with other 9mm pistols, same range & ammo consistently shoot groups half the size or better.

M&P, 952, fat Albert 59, HiPowers, even an antique Astra 600 all performed better.

So, do model 39-2’s have a reputation for accuracy issues? Anything done about it at reasonable cost?

Or, is it me, the ammo or something else?

Thanks for your input!

Try shooting them with a 147 gr. JHP. They may like it!

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

So, do model 39-2’s have a reputation for accuracy issues? Anything done about it at reasonable cost?

Or, is it me, the ammo or something else?

Thanks for your input!

When my Police Department went from S&W revolvers to S&W automatics most cops who were Expert class with the revolver became just Sharpshooter or Marksman with the automatics.

So just move the Target closer. It is a self defense pistol not a "match" pistol by any means. JMHO.

 

[sjmjax]

Might be on to something regarding the 147 grain bullet.
There was some improvement with 124 vs 115 in my tests.

Just what I need. An excuse for more range time! ��

 

[Model 15-4ever]

I have a 1974 production Model 39-2, and also a 1973 production Model 59. Have shot both with a large variety of ammunition, and of course some shot better than others.

In both guns, the smallest groups were consistently fired with Federal American Eagle 115 grain FMJ: sub-2" @ 25 yards.

Remington 124 grain BJHP (non-+P version) was sub 2.5" all day long. Federal XM9001 - equivalent to the 115 grain JHP +P 9BP load - was another good performer with sub-3" groups.

In contrast, the Federal 9CP 90 grain JSP - a popular loading back in the day - shot poorly in both guns, with 25Y groups of 4-6".

One aspect of these guns - the Model 39 in particular - is the reputation for being accurate but unforgiving: small defects in grip and trigger press show up quickly.

And it's always possible to get a bad barrel that doesn't shoot well. Or perhaps a frame crack.

 

[cmansguns]

BHP vs Model 39-2

Both my 1988 Browning Hi-Power and my Model 39-2 performed the same for me under the same conditions, with the same ammo.

A couple of targets from the same June day I believe 2019 or so, indoor range, no wind, very good lighting, Winchester White Box (cheapest around at the time) 124 grain, 10 yards offhand.

Just sold the BHP on this Forum, kept the Model 39, like them both, just time for the BHP to move along to new caretaker.

Like posted above, run the target a little closer, try 10 yards, see if results improve. My S&W wheelguns shoot real good at 25 yards, but that's just me and my grip, handsize, etc. Haven't really tried the 39 at that distance.

 

[JohnHL]

Back in the day, there were many disappointments regarding accuracy with the removable barrel bushing models due to inconsistencies of fitting.

Some were better than others.

When Dwayne Charron introduced the fixed bushing/ball muzzle barrel combination on the model 469, all of that changed.

John

 

[Brian Parrish]

My teen friends are all die hard 1911 boys. When they shoot my 6906 they are all over the paper. I can print a 4-inch group at range when they are printing 10 inches with the same gun.

I have watched them carefully to try to understand this.
They are not anticipating/flinching.
They can print 4 inches with their Colts.
Men will say it is the TDA, that krunchenticker!
There is some reason for this, but I don't know it.

I read on another forum a guy who had this problem, but he just kept shooting and then for some unknown reason the problem went away.
There has to be some real physics science reason why. Guns don't "like" or "dislike" anything, like one ammo or other. They are not "finicky" like a cat is (or like a woman can be). There is a reason.

Keep us posted.
BrianD

 

[Jeppo]

I’d put the gun in the hands of several other experienced shooters and see what happens.

 

[stansdds]

It is possible that you have two Model 39-2's that are simply inaccurate pistols. It is also possible that these two pistols do not like the ammo you tried in them. Grip and trigger control can also be an issue.

 

[BE Mike]

Any decent self-defense pistol should be able to shoot a 3"-4" group at 25 yards with the right ammo. That said, and this isn't directed to the OP, there are plenty of people who don't have the skills to do it.

 

[shil]

When my Police Department went from S&W revolvers to S&W automatics most cops who were Expert class with the revolver became just Sharpshooter or Marksman with the automatics.

I recall striking up a conversation with a foot patrol officer downtown in a major city. He was carrying a revolver, a stainless Smith. He explained that he qualified expert every time with that revolver, was confident with it, and felt no need to switch to the issue Glock. He was a multiple-year veteran and apparently was permitted the option.

 

[WR Moore]

I don't have a 2 digit example, but off the top of my head besides what's been mentioned, trigger overtravel might be an issue. Your finger has to learn when the trigger releases and to stop moving at that point.

The 4 digit DAO guns had that issue. Installing a trigger stop was the best way to solve it as the overtravel was huge.

 

[VASCAR2]

In my experience my 39-2 and 439 provide similar accuracy to my Browning High Power or 9 MM 1911. As others mentioned ammunition can make a difference. When I went through the Police Academy I was issued a new 439. My class Top Shot had a shoot off with one of the range Officers at 25 yards offhand on an NRA Bullseye pistol target. The range Officer shot his well worn issued 439 plus shot it upside down pulling the trigger with his pinky finger. Jerry C. had every shot in the ten ring or X ring out shooting the new cadet who shot very well. Rest in Peace JC he was an inspiration to me.

Another Officer who was a very good pistol shooter on the Tactical team had accuracy issues with his 439. They traced the problem to an out of spec slide catch. The barrel mates up against the round pin in the slide catch. Replacing the slide catch really improved the consistency and accuracy of that pistol.

We were issued W-W 115 grain +P+ JHP which surprisingly was accurate in our S&W pistols. My 5904 shoots comparable groups to my 439 and 39-2.

We shot reloaded jacket SWC ammo during my pistol training at the Academy. That bullet was accurate in my issued 439 but it was loaded by the range staff and I don’t know the weight. All 9 mm qualification shoots were with duty JHP ammo.

Shooting a DA/SA pistol is a skill that usually takes more time to achieve competency compared to single action or striker fired pistols. Having shot double action revolvers and DA/SA semi autos a lot I felt competent with either. One reason many agencies moved to striker fired pistols was the striker fired pistols usually were easier for new non shooters to learn and qualify.

 

[gmborkovic]

Can any of you old guys re-call any accurizing tips for the 39 from back in the 1960s? I cant.

 

[Drm50]

Few weeks back was taking the class to get CCW at my FFLs. Had taken a m37 to do shooting. Just so happened a S&W M39 that I had purchased on line had come in. So purchased box of 9s and used it instead of m37. It shot excellent. I’ve only owned one brand new 39 and that was back in early 70s. It also was a good shooter as have been another dozen or so that I have owned. They aren’t up to M52s but only stock American made pistol in their era comparable accuracy would be a HP.
Can’t wait for good weather to rest it and see what it will do. I know I could do even better if it had a better sight picture. The sights on it are made for combat not target shooting.

 

[Ameshawki]

The first gen nines can be spotty on accuracy. Most are decent, a few are good, some aren't so hot. Tack driving accuracy was never a selling point.

 

[sjmjax]

Follow-up:
Thanks everyone for your input.
Issue isn’t the pistols.

Apparently the ammo. I’ve been reloading a very long time. Pride myself on what I believe to be a quality and consistent product.
Perhaps not as goods I thought. And of course, some shooter errors on my part.

Went back today with factory loaded ammo.
Fiocchi 115
Fiocchi 124
Remington 147

15 yards, my typical standing two-hand, six o’clock hold (as best I can) on a 2” shoot-n-see target.

I’m quite satisfied with the groups. I think I had a flinch or bobble with the 147. Don’t think the ammmo is the cause of the flyers.

I think I need to re-access my reloading technique for 9mm.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Can any of you old guys re-call any accurizing tips for the 39 from back in the 1960s? I cant.

I can not. But the thinking in the 1970s was you went from a six shooter to a automatic with nine shots.

Also the "Three feet, three seconds, three shots" is a generalization that describes the average gunfight. It's also known as "McGee's Paradigm".

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I’m quite satisfied with the groups. I think I had a flinch or bobble with the 147. Don’t think the ammmo is the cause of the flyers.

I think I need to re-access my reloading technique for 9mm.

Those are good looking groups.

I always prefer for reloading a 125 grain LRN for 9mm going back to the late 1970s when factory 9mm was ridiculously priced compared to .38 Special.