What happened to the Old Smith and Wesson Company

[Martin McCabe]

I will NEVER purchase another Smith & Wesson product after my last two experiences with them. On my original model 629 44 magnum, with the old-style sights, the front screw fell out. Everybody told me to call S & W and they would send me a screw for free.
I didn't care about the "free" part so I stopped at a gunsmith but he didn't have any sight screws. I called Smith & Wesson and after giving them the serial number they said "We don't stock any parts for that gun, it was made in 1986"
I asked about the great Smith & Wesson lifetime guarantee? The reply was, "Sorry we don't stock parts for that gun anymore"
I would have thought they would be proud of one of their guns still in action that was made almost 40 years ago.

The second incident that finished me with S&W was a month ago, I purchased a new stainless steel revolver from them. I shot two rounds and then the cylinder would not rotate. I took the gun to a gunsmith who had to disassemble the gun. Inside he found a large chip of metal that was left over from the machining/assembling process and it was jammed in the mechanisim. I called S&W, not to complain but to suggest they do a better job on quality control in whichever factory was making these revolvers since this type of issue could hurt their reputation. The customer service guy said "Well those things happen"
That did it. In my mind, they are no longer a quality company.

 

[luvsmiths]

They haven't been a quality company in decades.

 

[Hairtrigger]

Still better than Colt

 

[dben002]

There obviously are things going on at S&W among the everyday workers that top management knows nothing about.

That is why if anyone knows how to contact any of the upper management they should do so and pass along some of the things that have been said and done with customers having a problem..

Management can't correct what they are kept in the dark about.

I am sure customer service and tech support keep things to themselves to protect their jobs.

If you want things to change shout it from the mountain.

 

[moosedog]

It's a sign of the times. Almost all the big companies have been geared for a profit margin, not highest quality.

 

[GnarlsR2]

I will NEVER purchase another Smith & Wesson product after my last two experiences with them.... In my mind, they are no longer a quality company.

Of all the products being produced for the average consumer, a handgun for self-protection should be at the highest level of design, quality, and tested reliability.

A handgun is a relatively VERY simple mechanical device. The device has a history of incredible reliability after 1000s of rounds of ammo and use.

Why has a legendary firearm manufacturer failed to such a degree? Is it apathy, greed, cultural dysfunction?.

“The most common reasons for a company failure include financial mismanagement, poor planning, ineffective marketing, lack of leadership, and failure to adapt to market changes.”

The Body Guard 2.0 is an example of an extraordinary failure.

For every one (1) person that has posted a public experience that they opened the box and fired a half dozen different types of ammo and it worked flawlessly, the sights were perfectly aligned, they had no problems fully loading 10 and 12-round magazine, it’s highly accurate to 25 yards, they have 1000’s of rounds through it and they claim it’s their new best handgun ever, there are 10s of thousands of posts in online forums that complain and describe disturbing design flaws and quality control issues. Coupled with the mechanical failures, there are 1000s of complaints about the uncaring and incredible lack of customer service.

As much as I have been able to personally correct the problems with it, and really like the gun for a pocket carry defense weapon, due to the surprisingly bad experience with my Body Guard 2.0 and my two conversations with Smith & Wesson’s Customer Service, I will most likely never buy a Smith & Wesson product again.

That's just my worthless opinion.

 

[Hairtrigger]

I would guess most guns get fired very few times

Also S&W have investors to answer to. Their stock is NOT soaring

 

[NavySCPO]

S&W

I am in no position to defend Smith & Wesson, nor would I try.

Having said that, it’s not really the company in my humble opinion. It’s the state of the quality of employees in the workplace these days. Most companies it’s almost Impossible to get fired, I am a former HR Manager and later EHS Manager who sat on every board and every hiring interview for many years at General Electric, Crucible Steel, North American Energy Services and others. They all hate to hire, the quality of candidates in the marketplace is nothing short of frightening! Assuming you even get candidates to apply. So, if you don’t fire the current person, you never have to replace them. These days, if they shake your hand and you shake back, and show up most of the time, and you’ll have that job as long as you want, regardless of the quality of your work.

The hiring ads should read, can you fog a mirror? Then we’re looking for you!

 

[PatriotX]

If a lug nut falls off your classic Mustang, do you call Ford and complain?

 

[GnarlsR2]

...
... it’s not really the company in my humble opinion. It’s the state of the quality of employees in the workplace these days.

It's starts at the top and culture permeates the company.

I worked for a $2.6 Billon international corporation. I was surprised to learn quickly that the culture was "don't make waves". They hired the wrong people, and fired the employees who demonstrated dedication and presented great ideas to progress the company. It was obvious the CEO level didn't really want employees making a few waves to progress the company.

They promoted unqualified employees and fired some of the most qualified people.

It was a disturbing place to work at times. Fortunately for me, I worked for the very best manager I ever worked for. You would never guess he was a Marine Training Instructor is his early life.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I'm surprised by all the negativity. Not from the OP, he seems to be the typical one post ghost type of complaintant.

Ah well.

 

[luvsmiths]

I would guess most guns get fired very few times

Also S&W have investors to answer to. Their stock is NOT soaring

Neither is their reputation.

 

[Brian Parrish]

S&W Total Firearms: 2,316,857 annual

Rifles: 427,368

Shotguns: 2,773

Handguns: 1,881,242

Misc: 5,474

Once again as of April 2024, S&W is the number one gunmaker in the US. Ruger is second at 2,076,094.
Glock comes in at number 5 with 581,944 guns of all types made each year.

I believe that their handling of quality control, as you have experienced it, is a deliberate cost cutting policy and is an imitation of other gun manufacturers and even other industries.

Kind Regards!
BrianD

 

[LittleAugieMo]

This is what keeps the price of the early Smiths up,even "non collector" or shooter grades.

 

[Jack Flash]

" The customer service guy said "Well those things happen" "

That's not a very comforting answer, but it's true. Before trusting a firearm for home protection, etc., it needs to be shot at least a couple hundred times to confirm that it's reliable.

A certain percentage of products slips through quality control for every manufacturer. It sounds like you went straight to a third-party gunsmith before contacting S&W. At least in the second instance, once the problem was corrected, what did you want them to do?

True story: I worked for a military contractor that supplied F-15 and F/A-18 fighter planes to the US armed forces. When an aircraft was assembled and approved for flight, it was taken out for a test flight by a military pilot. In one case, as jet took off, a screwdriver shot past the pilot's head and bounced off the canopy behind him. What he had to say about the incident would get me banned from the forum if I repeated it. The pilot could have lost an eye or even been killed in a crash. Someone who had been adjusting the displays and controls had forgotten to account for all his tools. Stuff happens.

This happened with a piece of equipment costing (IIRC) over $25 million at that time. Your handgun must have cost in the $1,000 range. No system is perfect.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Stuff happens.... No system is perfect.

What percentage of BG2s sold as new is a "Stuff happens" quantity is acceptable?

0.5%
1%?
3%?
10%?

Assuming you were buying a handgun for self-defense....

If you were told by the manufacturer that 10 out of every 1,000 handguns of your choice were going fail or be DOA out of the box would you buy one?

 

[StrawHat]

Sorry, you bought a revolver, brand new, and did not tear it down, inspect and clean it? Shame on you, not the company that made it.

Before ANY new firearm goes to the range, it gets inspected.

Kevin

 

[SWFan27]

Their customer service has been easy enough to deal with. And when I did have to send my 617 back for a second warranty visit, I was able to get someone from S&W's upper management involved. He emailed me a few updates and had it shipped back to me within two weeks. When I have called or emailed for things like replacement screws, they arrive in a few days.

 

[Beju]

Sorry, you bought a revolver, brand new, and did not tear it down, inspect and clean it? Shame on you, not the company that made it.

Before ANY new firearm goes to the range, it gets inspected.

Kevin

If it was inside of the revolver, I'd find that fairly concerning. While I pull side plates on new revolvers to check for lubrication, I don't think that it should be absolutely necessary.

That being said, it's questionable if the company that Martin thinks existed when he bought his 629 in 1986 ever existed in the first place.

Back then, S&W had multiple service centers by major population areas that did plenty of fixing of brand new revolvers that they'd shipped to police departments and others. While the then relatively new L-frames didn't have the forcing cone issues of the 357 K frames, they'd still have other parts break if you shot a lot of .357 Magnum through them. If you were all 357 all the time, you were better off with an N frame or a Ruger GP100.

People spent 2 decades lamenting the effects of the 1965 Bangor Punta buyout. The cost cutting didn't start then, either. In the late 1950s, S&W moved away from what you typically think of as forging for their hammers and triggers to a cheaper swaging process using soft flat stock that was subsequently case hardened.

 

[rct269]

There was a time, "the good old days", when S&W's philosophy was we will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price. That went on for about a hundred years--------and it worked.

Then a new philosophy was born----we will be successful if we build our products and conduct our operations at the lowest possible cost. This latter philosophy has matured over the ensuing 75 years.

One writer above lays this at the doorstep of senior management----perhaps simply because he didn't stop to think about who senior management reports to. (That would be the owners.) I can't tell you who the major owners are at this point in time, but I can tell you what their interests are.

I can go on, but it's a sad tale --------and the only happy ending will arise from new owners----with somewhat different interests.

Ralph Tremaine