Newer smiths - Better In Some Ways?

[b737lvr]

Alright hold your horses folks, this may be spicy. First and foremost there is no doubt that an older smith is going to look better than anything made today, especially a blue. I also want to be clear that I am in no way dismissing the fact that many newer smiths suffer from greater QC issues than they did in their prime. But I feel like in many ways we're glossing right over the good to highlight the bad. This is kind of going to be a wall but anyone who enjoys some good reading and possibly banter will thoroughly enjoy this.


1. Fitment -


Okay, again, fitment is nowhere what it was decades ago. But I can attest that my newer smiths seem to have absolutely no problem running continuously through a box of 50 or more without slowing down. I can't say the same for the older-finer made examples. I logically believe this is due to the wider tolerances and fit of newer examples. It seems like I can not go through a box of ammo on older J's, especially bare lead, without having to stop due to either carbon or lead buildup around the crane and cylinder slowing it down potentially putting unwanted stress on the pawl. This is not always the case but its definitely more often than not.


2. Repair -


Finding someone local who can do the hand fit work on an older smith is just not possible anymore. I especially feel worse for the pony guys. In the modern world of assembled guns it seems like nobody really knows how to smith a smith. Newer examples are hardly hand fit and any technician with an IQ above 90 can mostly repair a newer model.


3. Warranty -


I can go out and buy a brand new smith revolver today, do my own QC before purchase, take the gun out, and shoot it all I want and not even think twice about it. Smith WILL take care of it if anything happens - for life. I find myself shying away from those older smiths mainly for this reason. I don't want to shoot them and I don't want to handle them because of similar reasons made in point two.


4. Rigidity -


Similarly to point three I can shoot whatever and however much ammunition my newer smiths are rated for and not feel bad about it at all. Modern steel is stronger, the modern designs such as the yoke screw, frame integrated cylinder catch, frame mounted firing pin, and more are all just plainly better and I can't logically refute that no matter how good a pinned barrel/recessed cylinder model 27 looks.


5. Price -


Considering we are living in a post-revolver world I have to admit that these prices are decent all things considered. An older smith, accounting for inflation, costs no more today than it did in 1980 despite the fact that all newer sales are purely civilian consumer products and not financially backed by military, police, or security contracts. A newer air-weight is actually less expensive today than it was 45 years ago, inflation adjusted. Food for thought.


So thank you for coming to my ted talk. But in all seriousness, I am mostly glad we have what we have today and ol S&W seems eager to improve lately. I'm glad we have what we have because they could have very well just stopped producing revolvers 25 years ago without a second thought. But they didn't and I can still go out and buy a good looking well functioning revolver (granted I do my own QC).

 

[80sgyrene]

I ‘m skeptical that these will be covered for “life”.

 

[Jeep 1]

Not me, I know what I’m buying, and I pay attention and I have never regretted a single purchase of a pre-lock
And I will never own il as long as I can find an original pre-lock
Sorry, that’s just me.
Tom

 

[b737lvr]

Not me, I know what I’m buying, and I pay attention and I have never regretted a single purchase of a pre-lock
And I will never own il as long as I can find an original pre-lock
Sorry, that’s just me.
Tom

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Funny enough, I know a lot of Glock fellas who won't buy anything newer than Gen 3.

 

[StrawHat]

I believe all S&W revolvers had a lifetime warranty. But, define lifetime? Mine? Yours? The revolver? Or the company that made it?

Years ago it was a family run business. They did what they needed to to keep happy customers. And they did a lot of warranty work. Later (in the 1950s?) an outsider was brought in to run things. I believe they still honored the old warranty. Then the company was sold to a series of other companies. At some point, they did not feel the need to honor the old warranty, perhaps because parts were no longer kept in stock or made. Not unlike Ford, the no longer work on Model T’s, or A’s, or Edsels, or (fill in the blank).

Me? I like the 45 ACP revolvers from the S&W companies. The old ones are nice! The new ones have been made in styles and materials never used before. Each has its own merits and I have no problem buying WHAT SUITS ME!

This is still, for the time being, the United States. You get to make your own choices and broadcast your decision to the world! A beautiful thing.

Kevin

 

[dsf]

I have one new Smith and it is a Model 638. I bought it for carry use because a) it is dependable and b) if it goes away for some reason I won't mind and can buy another.

The OP wrote a fairly detailed and on point post regarding modern Smith revolvers. I'll take a related position, in a fashion -

Modern Smith and Wesson revolvers are made to tighter tolerances, are more consistently fit and finished than those same guns made from the 1930's to 1970's. However at this stage in my "accumulation career" that's not why I buy Smith & Wesson revolvers.

 

[SWFan27]

I agree with the OP.

 

[b737lvr]

I have one new Smith and it is a Model 638. I bought it for carry use because a) it is dependable and b) if it goes away for some reason I won't mind and can buy another.

The OP wrote a fairly detailed and on point post regarding modern Smith revolvers. I'll take a related position, in a fashion -

Modern Smith and Wesson revolvers are made to tighter tolerances, are more consistently fit and finished than those same guns made from the 1930's to 1970's. However at this stage in my "accumulation career" that's not why I buy Smith & Wesson revolvers.

I can't say that newer smiths are tighter in the least bit. But I don't think that is at all a bad thing as I said in my OP. My grandmother uses a 351C in 22 magnum and despite having put literally hundreds of rounds through it without cleaning- it runs flawlessly. I will definitely be taking it to my bench for cleaning after the next trip but I am amazed at how well it's running. We have simply not had one issue.

 

[Beju]

S&W QC certainly leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm not convinced that it's necessarily worse than previous bad eras they've had.

Guys who were around in the 1970s and 80s lamented the 1965 Bangor Punta buyout. IIRC, Darryl Bolke and others have said that in the 1980s, S&W had repair centers around the country, and there was plenty of fixing of revolvers that shouldn't have left the factory in the state that they did.

I bang on this drum all the time, but MIM hammers and triggers with soft cores replaced swaged, low carbon steel, case hardened parts with soft cores (made to less repeatable tolerances), not through-hardened forged parts.

 

[stansdds]

All I will say is that your mileage may vary and that applies to both old and new S&W's.

 

[b737lvr]

S&W QC certainly leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm not convinced that it's necessarily worse than previous bad eras they've had.

Guys who were around in the 1970s and 80s lamented the 1965 Bangor Punta buyout. IIRC, Darryl Bolke and others have said that in the 1980s, S&W had repair centers around the country, and there was plenty of fixing of revolvers that shouldn't have left the factory in the state that they did.

I bang on this drum all the time, but MIM hammers and triggers with soft cores replaced swaged, low carbon steel, case hardened parts with soft cores (made to less repeatable tolerances), not through-hardened forged parts.

I've heard this too. I often times think we over blow the past. It's not just Smith & Wesson or even guns. You never hear anyone talk about how an old Chevrolet or Cadillac would breakdown, valves go out of adjustment, eat oil. All we ever hear is "they dont make them like they used to". Well I guess thats true, I'm not adjusting the valves on my 2024 Subaru and it hasn't left me stranded! Similarly, I haven't had to hone the yoke screw on my new 637 like I did my 1970 Model 36 that suffered a poorly fit yoke button from the factory. I haven't seen or heard of wide spread cracking forcing cones or frames on new air-weights, an issue the original model 37 suffered from basically it's entire life span. It's my understanding that the 44 magnums had especially widespread issues with end shake and frame stretching.

 

[margethatcher]

The message I chose to post is too short, But no.

 

[bobsguns]

I ‘m skeptical that these will be covered for “life”.

Smith no longer covers ALL guns with their lifetime warranty. J-frames are not, for example.

 

[44wheelman]

Different company, different times. They aren't competing with history, just other manufacturers in the same environment. All the new technology, has reduced or eliminated "fitment", they are just assembled. Some good, some bad...let the buyer sort it out - if it's egregious enough, or a liability they'll fix it.

Right now, I put them behind Colt, and on par with Ruger. My opinion.

 

[CH4]

I was one of those “never lockers”, until I stumbled upon a 386, to which there is no pre-lock version. Knowing there was a slick way to hide the lock, I jumped.

As far as quality and aesthetics go, generally I think earlier is better.

 

[Ameshawki]

The most accurate Smith I own is a 686 Pro with all the bad features. I don't own many guns with the lock but it's not something I get the vapors over. Older guns are usually better but not always. Smith has had it's ups and downs over the years.

 

[H Richard]

I've been shooting S&W's for about 50 years. I've had some pretty accurate and reliable firearms. But the one that has gone to the range with me every time for the past approximately 15+ years is my 617-6. Yes, it has an IL. I think I have the keys for it, not sure I've never inserted them into the lock. I normally use bulk type ammo I've accumulated over the years, and it shoots outstanding. If I use my match type ammo it shoots teeny tiny groups (from a rest, I'm too old for offhand).
I do own one other IL S&W, a 432PD, 32 H&R Magnum. Since it's a 2" lightweight it doesn't get shot frequently, but it has never failed me and the accuracy is up to any 2" S&W.

 

[WCCPHD]

The new S&W's will never be as good as the old guns. They won't even be close until they start employing people for quality control. Take the new Bodyguard 2.0 for example. I had to go through nine guns before I found one without a messed up feed ramp and/or misaligned sights. The 986 I bought had the front sight "walking off" the first time I shot it. I ordered a 640 Pro and refused it when it arrived due to the poor quality machining.

 

[FivePews]

Smith no longer covers ALL guns with their lifetime warranty. J-frames are not, for example.

What? J-frames do not have the typical S&W warranty? This is the first I've heard of this.

I've picked up 7 or 8 Js in the last couple years specifically because of the wonderful warranty, and I put a LOT of rounds through them with the expectation that Smith would stand behind them.

 

[SWFan27]

I've been shooting S&W's for about 50 years. I've had some pretty accurate and reliable firearms. But the one that has gone to the range with me every time for the past approximately 15+ years is my 617-6. Yes, it has an IL. I think I have the keys for it, not sure I've never inserted them into the lock. I normally use bulk type ammo I've accumulated over the years, and it shoots outstanding. If I use my match type ammo it shoots teeny tiny groups (from a rest, I'm too old for offhand).
I do own one other IL S&W, a 432PD, 32 H&R Magnum. Since it's a 2" lightweight it doesn't get shot frequently, but it has never failed me and the accuracy is up to any 2" S&W.

My 617-6 goes to the range with me every time also. It is a fantastic revolver which has taught me how to shoot double action. It has become probably my favorite firearm that I own.