Range day and Ransom Rest first shots

[PatriotX]

Hi folks,

Went to the range with member Shutthefrontdoor, and broke out the new-to-me Ransom Rest for some shakedown shots.

I had a few 3rd gens that needed excercising, he brought some fancy iron.

As this was more about testing the new base and hardware, we didn’t shoot enough strings for meaningful data and load identification. The surprise of the day was probably the 845 laying down the tightest group after just a few seasoning rounds.

The nicest trigger to shoot offhand, by far, was his 952 Longslide. I look forward to finding the preferred load for that pistol and putting it through its paces.

As weather gets better, look for more Ransom Rest threads!

 

[Sevens]

The surprise of the day was probably the 845 laying down the tightest group after just a few seasoning rounds.

This is absurd! I took the liberty of underlining the absurd part.
Please take my comment in the joking manner in which I offer it.

I'm wondering about the last picture you posted -- it appears the 952 is out of battery. Why is that?

The Ransom Rest is a unique invention. I have never had the pleasure of using one. I like the concept, but I am not sold on the concept. I also genuinely wonder if the 3rd Gen grip style makes the use of a Ransom Rest a difficult proposition.

Yes, the 952 has removable stocks. The 845 is a different animal, as are all production 3rd Gen pistols.

As we can see clearly in the 2nd picture with the 952 locked in to the unit, the stocks are removed. However when you remove the one piece grip of a production 3rd Gen (or an 845...) you also remove the base for the mainspring.

Does the attachment for the Ransom Rest also act as a temporary anchor for the mainspring...?

 

[jeffrefrig]

I like that thing, the Ransom Rest. I have a few revolvers that I'd like to dial in a little tighter. Most of them I used the laser bore sighting thing , which is simple for me but only gets you real close (25 yds.)

 

[PatriotX]

On the 3rd gens, a Hogue spring cup retainer is used. I’ll grab a pic shortly.

The pic of the 952 out of battery was during initial setup, when the clamping was uneven in front and it was pressing on the magazine incorrectly.

 

[PatriotX]

I like that thing, the Ransom Rest. I have a few revolvers that I'd like to dial in a little tighter. Most of them I used the laser bore sighting thing , which is simple for me but only gets you real close (25 yds.)

We plan to have a few revolver comparisons soon, between some stock production guns, some DX offerings, and some PC guns.


On the semiauto side, I look forward to seeing which of the Model 52s is the most accurate. There is a 52-1 and a pair of 52-2s to sample. Winner takes on the PC 3rd gens.

 

[cherrypointmarine]

You need to find someone with a 5 & 6in Target Champion . I know how mine shoot , but I would like to see them up against 952's using that rest .

 

[Yendor357]

I’d like to see a 686 vs new Python.
629 vs Anaconda

 

[6string]

Congratulations on acquiring a Ransom Rest!

At one time, I had extensive experience with them.
I really got involved with them almost 30 years ago when the SC Nat’l Guard pistol team used them at the Mid-Carolina Gun Club to test their Hämmerli 208s pistols and 1911s.
To be clear, the Ransom Rest is primarily intended for accuracy testing, not necessarily for sighting in!

I’d like to respectfully make a few suggestions:
1). When first using with a freshly mounted guns, check the tightness of screws for the grip adapter, etc. Then, shoot a string of shots to settle the gun and re-check screws, etc. (From the above, I think you know that! )
2). To get truly objective and meaningful results the base, mount, and whatever you have attached it to must be rock solid.
For best results, I have used a dedicated Ransom Rest shooting station. This consists of a large iron I-beam permanently set in concrete two-three feet deep in well packed earth with gravel drainage. Atop the I-beam is welded a steel plate drilled with holes to match the Ransom Rest base.
If you’ve ever seen or visited a well equipped ballistics lab that tests for accuracy, you may have noticed the extreme efforts made to eliminate movement, resonance, and vibration.
3). Wooden benches or other moveable platforms will not yield best results.
4). Minimum set-up could be heavy iron C clamps on a permanent fixed bench. Keep in mind, if you can feel vibration in the bench, say from someone dropping a heavy range bag on it, that indicates potential for error.

Enjoy the Ransom Rest! Don’t be surprised if you get an audience whenever you take it to the range!

PS: for comparison, one gunsmith I knew had a Cominolli Device for testing match barrels. This is basically a cannon breech that accepts 1911 barrels. It mounts to any base drilled for a Ransom Rest.
It was very interesting to test batches of match barrels (such as Kart, Clark, etc) at 50 yds. Best grade barrels would shoot 10 shot 1” groups. Barrels that weren’t up to snuff were sent back. Fred Kart was very good about sending out replacements.
However, even the best barrels would not shoot quite that well once they were fitted to a 1911 and fired from a Ransom Rest. Same barrel, same ammo, same range and distance.
Lesson learned? Take nothing for granted and assume nothing when it comes to accuracy!

 

[gunbarrel]

About 35 years ago, I bought a new Series 70 Gold Cup for $400 and a box of factory wadcutters, and the next day, I took it to the range. I shot a magazine full through it, and I thought that the trigger pull was very light, but I figured that was the way it was supposed to be. Sweet! So, I took it down the line to our Club's Ransom Rest, put another full magazine in the well after removing the grips and secured it on the RR.

On the first pull of the RR lever to mash down on the trigger, the darn thing went full auto on me! My buddy was next to me and he said I was white as a sheet

Once my nerves calmed down, I made sure the magazine was empty, I took it off the rest, boxed it up and took it home. After I put my underwear and pants in the washing machine, I called Colt and told them what happened. They told me not to shoot it again, and send it back to them right away.

When I got it back, the trigger was still light, but not THAT iight. The next day, I was at the range bright and early with my buddy and although a little gun-shy (no pun intended...) I tried it again and I never had any more problems with it. But, just in case, I did not put it back on the RR; I just benched it and rest it on a couple of sandbags..

 

[gunbarrel]

6string, did you ever shoot a 1911 Kart Conversion? Expensive, but amazingly precise.

 

[6string]

6string, did you ever shoot a 1911 Kart Conversion? Expensive, but amazingly precise.

Never owned one, but did shoot one! It was nice to shoot on a 1911 frame, and might’ve been all steel. It was a 6” longslide version.
Yes, it felt precise. And with all that steel, it was like dry firing!

I’ve shot the newer conversions like the Marvel. They are nice, too. But, the Kart conversion was machined steel beauty!

Let me update that…
I “think” I shot one! It may, in fact, have been a Bob Day conversion.

 

[6string]

Of course, leave it to the Swiss to devise something even better!
Here’s a rest for the SIG P-210.
Note it uses a sliding cradle made from a massive steel L-beam with roller bearings to take up the recoil.

And, 10 shot 25 meter groups.

 

[chief38]

IMHO accuracy testing and sighting in a hand gun in a Ransom Rest is OK, but fine sighting should be done while shooting the gun from the position it will normally be shot in. Why? because the "hold" is not exactly the same as a machine rest. Every shooter has their own idiosyncrasies on how they aim and can actually differ with different guns.

So yes, a Ransom Rest may be perfectly fine and the way to go to test out the inherent accuracy of a given pistol but in actual fine sighting I believe in doing it the old fashioned way - which to me has always worked out best.

Just wanted to mention this because some think it is better to fine sight on a machine rest - even though it will never be used again to shoot the gun.

 

[6string]

IMHO accuracy testing and sighting in a hand gun in a Ransom Rest is OK, but fine sighting should be done while shooting the gun from the position it will normally be shot in. Why? because the "hold" is not exactly the same as a machine rest. Every shooter has their own idiosyncrasies on how they aim and can actually differ with different guns.

So yes, a Ransom Rest may be perfectly fine and the way to go to test out the inherent accuracy of a given pistol but in actual fine sighting I believe in doing it the old fashioned way - which to me has always worked out best.

Just wanted to mention this because some think it is better to fine sight on a machine rest - even though it will never be used again to shoot the gun.

Yes, absolutely!
I think that maybe some people are confused about the difference between “accuracy” and “sighting”.
Right here on this forum, there are countless stories about guys getting deals on guns that “weren’t accurate”, when in fact, they simply needed their sights adjusted.

Consider the attached image from Doug Wesson’s book “Burning Powder”.
And, this quote:
“ The two groups shown here were shot successively with two different types of ammunition from an S&W .357 Magnum revolver with 8 3/4 inch barrel, in the machine rest, at the same distance, and under identical conditions throughout; comments are unnecessary.”

Obviously, the upper group is “less accurate” than the lower group. Yet, in both cases the gun could be considered to be “sighted in”.

 

[Rick H.]

We had a Ransom Rest at the Academy on my old department. I would see it occasionally when I first was hired, but at the time we were issued Model 66's and I had not attained the required experience to become a firearms instructor or armorer. A few years later when we switched to a brandy new semi-auto pistol and I became an armorer on the new pistols and a firearms instructor, the Ransom Rest mysteriously disappeared never to be seen again. You can draw your own conclusions from that convenient disappearance.

Fast forward several years and I had totally forgotten about our old Ransom Rest, but I found a battered old manila file folder for it in an old file cabinet in the arms room at the Academy. There was some penciled notes on shooting results in the file and an owners manual of sorts for the rest. Someone long ago had written in red lead pencil that the rest was not to be used for sighting in, only for checking group sizes. This information didn't make a whole lot of sense to me at the time, but it did later on. I never had the opportunity of using a Ransom Rest, but would have loved to have had the chance to use one. Oh well....

Rick H.