OP
Sooooooo now we’re quoting professors of Greek and Roman history to make a point. A guy who’s been dead for 212 yrs??????? C’mon man.
Why the disdain for “rich” people ?
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silicosys4
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OP
We’re not there yet. That’s why we have so many checks and balances. This is why so many presidents never get to push their agendas through………. I’m the OP. I didn’t intend for this thread to turn into a debate about Social Security. In fact I never thought Social Security would enter into the discussion. You may not like it but it’s not going anywhere. In fact, in the not to distant future YOU will be paying more into it. So will your employer. It will never be allowed to go insolvent. And frankly it’s an easy fix. A couple dollars (literally) per pay check and the problem goes away. So rather than complain about it. Perhaps you should plan how you’re going to spend yours in retirement.
squidsix
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I’m doin alright for country trash.
Ya know it's established fact that trolls tend to return to the last location of the dropped food pellet. Sorta like Salmon except for the effort. Joe
I can dispute this statement with facts. The sum of the dollars deposited in my Social Security account by my employer and me since 1970 is $432,000. So if that money never collected a dime in interest, it would cover my payout for 12 years. Now I did a little calculation and at 4% interest per year, the total in my account would be over $700,000. So how long do you think $700,000 would last if it continued bearing interest and you withdrew $40,000 per year? It would last 28 years. Not too many of us who retire at 65 last 28 years. And for every poor soul with an account like that who kicks at 70, like a several dozen of my classmates, that money should still be there to benefit the 1% or 2% who live to be 95. Correction only 0.6% of the US population lives past 90
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Envy.
GypsmJim
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I don't want to take away anyone's last word, but I love to tell stories and my most favorite life experience kinda sorta fits is here:
My previous company was a fledgling business in 1928. They had a good customer base, but the Depression was killing their business. There was only a single manufacturing plant at that time and times were tough.
One day the President of the company called all the employees into the lunch room. He said he was having financial issues and he could not make payroll that week. Maybe not next week either.
He made an offer....and a promise. If everyone came to work anyway, knowing they would not be paid, he would promise to get them paid later when he got the money. Buttttt, more than that, he would promise that they would have a job for life. LIFE!!!
A dozen took the deal and things improved and they got paid, yada, yada.
Years went by and now there were 23 factories in the fold. Life was good.
One by one they retired. They got their company paid pension, but still got a weekly pay check. The old Codgers would come in every Friday, walk around the plant and say Hi to their buddies, and then go to the office and collect their pay check.
Then things got really bad. Environmental regulations, increased energy cost and supply chain issues made the plant unsustainable. The other 22 plants were keeping them solvent.
Did they shut down? Heck NO!!! Their CEO, although long since passed away, had made them a promise. So, they continued to bleed red for 10 years.
Sadly one day we learned that old Joe had passed away. He was 96. He had been collecting a paycheck but had not worked in 30 years. He was the last of the original employees.
The Current CEO came to the funeral. The next day he closed down the plant. Good news, bad news. Everyone still working was transferred to other local facilities.
I am proud to have spent 30 years of my life there.
Just like SS, but on a smaller scale. You promise to pay in and work till you turn 65. They promise to reward you till you die.
My previous company was a fledgling business in 1928. They had a good customer base, but the Depression was killing their business. There was only a single manufacturing plant at that time and times were tough.
One day the President of the company called all the employees into the lunch room. He said he was having financial issues and he could not make payroll that week. Maybe not next week either.
He made an offer....and a promise. If everyone came to work anyway, knowing they would not be paid, he would promise to get them paid later when he got the money. Buttttt, more than that, he would promise that they would have a job for life. LIFE!!!
A dozen took the deal and things improved and they got paid, yada, yada.
Years went by and now there were 23 factories in the fold. Life was good.
One by one they retired. They got their company paid pension, but still got a weekly pay check. The old Codgers would come in every Friday, walk around the plant and say Hi to their buddies, and then go to the office and collect their pay check.
Then things got really bad. Environmental regulations, increased energy cost and supply chain issues made the plant unsustainable. The other 22 plants were keeping them solvent.
Did they shut down? Heck NO!!! Their CEO, although long since passed away, had made them a promise. So, they continued to bleed red for 10 years.
Sadly one day we learned that old Joe had passed away. He was 96. He had been collecting a paycheck but had not worked in 30 years. He was the last of the original employees.
The Current CEO came to the funeral. The next day he closed down the plant. Good news, bad news. Everyone still working was transferred to other local facilities.
I am proud to have spent 30 years of my life there.
Just like SS, but on a smaller scale. You promise to pay in and work till you turn 65. They promise to reward you till you die.
I have no disdain for the wealthy as I believe in capitalism.
However, to those that worship at the altar of opulence please keep your self elevating back patting to yourself.
However, to those that worship at the altar of opulence please keep your self elevating back patting to yourself.
Social responsibility and promises made, promises kept.
I have a pension I've received since mid-2000. I worked 21 years, 4 months for poor pay, in uncontrolled conditions, and occasional life-threatening danger that I could not move away from. Do the math - I've been paid a pension at the average of my highest 5 years' base salary for 25 years, nearly 4 more years than I worked. That was the deal, even if I live another 25 years.
Don't like it? Then find another way to get people to do that work. Without a promise of lifetime security, you'll need to pay a lot more in salary to get qualified folks that will do the work long-term.
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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SS is not a Ponzi scheme, rather, as I heard NJ's then-Senator Bill Bradley tell a constituent at a public meeting in 1988:
"Social Security is not an IRA, a Keogh Plan, a pension plan. Your Social Security "account number" does not identify a pool of money just for you. It is an income transfer program and nothing else."
Also the rich pay for goods and services-like the rest of us.
"Social Security is not an IRA, a Keogh Plan, a pension plan. Your Social Security "account number" does not identify a pool of money just for you. It is an income transfer program and nothing else."
Also the rich pay for goods and services-like the rest of us.
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dsf
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I'll not quibble (too much) over the term "equity" as it implies a return linked to participation. Or that we are not (but unfortunately getting close to) a democracy.
It seems to me a necessary step is allowing people dominion over their earnings, to the greatest extent possible. To limit taxation to the bare essentials such as national defense, infrastructure, etc. Because if the government takes an individual's earnings for the purpose of supporting another, of redistributing that person's earnings to for another's individual use rather than the general welfare, it perpetuates a system based on "when do I get mine?"
Can you imagine transporting a US worker forward +125 years or so who, after having been promised $20.00 an hour after working 40 hrs, opens a paycheck for $625.00 or so? I think he'd be reaching for his Schofield.
Two steps forward would be a) repealing the 17th Amendment and c) returning to "liberty of contract" as in pre- Lochner.
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silicosys4
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Anecdotal.
This is absolutely unsustainable. We are at 37 TRILLION in debt with an additional trillion added every three months.
the average-earning dual-income couple retiring in 2025, will receive 32 percent more in benefits than the Social Security and Medicare taxes paid over a lifetime. The average single-earner couple will receive 62 percent more in benefits than they pay in taxes. And that disparity will worsen over time – the same couples retiring in 2055 will receive 44 percent and 69 percent more than they pay in, respectively. Indeed, an average-earning dual-income couple retiring in 2055 will receive nearly $2.5 million in benefits (in today’s dollars), compared to the $1.4 million they pay in taxes.
Payroll Taxes Fall Short of Paying for Social Security and Medicare | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
2023-12-18-In a recent New York Times opinion piece which keyed off awww.crfb.org
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I haven't a problem with rich people. I have know a few who were great people. I do however have a problem with them getting way more of a tax break that those with moderate incomes. In 1990 the top 1% had 22.8% of all wealth in America, now they have 30.8% Meanwhile the bottom 50% went from having 3.7% of all wealth to just 2.2%. Trickle down has proven to be trickle up.
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otis24
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Envy! Jealousy is a little voice inside you that says “I wish I had that!@. Envy is more insidious. It is that voice that says “I wish that you didn’t have that!”.
The next time someone is bashing the rich, ask them “When is the last time a ooor man gave you a job?”.
The next time someone is bashing the rich, ask them “When is the last time a ooor man gave you a job?”.
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Or as some song says, happiness is not getting what you want, it's wanting what you get.
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Some come by their wealth through luck. Others work for it. I believe most of the millionaires are small business owners.
I always wonder if those that begrudge the rich their wealth really understand the risk involved in getting it. I guess when you're broke you might not be able to comprehend capital at risk. Perhaps the funding for social benefits should be at-risk. You will be paid a share of profits from an investment fund. Do you want the risky fund or the T-bill fund? Your payment is dependent on performance. But no, they want something for nothing.
I always wonder if those that begrudge the rich their wealth really understand the risk involved in getting it. I guess when you're broke you might not be able to comprehend capital at risk. Perhaps the funding for social benefits should be at-risk. You will be paid a share of profits from an investment fund. Do you want the risky fund or the T-bill fund? Your payment is dependent on performance. But no, they want something for nothing.
Time to put an end to this... 
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