Archival Observations: The S&W Loudenboomen in .30 Carbine (Target)

[RM Vivas]

Archival Observations:
The S&W Loudenboomen​

I think everyone is familiar, at least in passing, with the .30 caliber revolver experiments that S&W tried during World War Two.

While the idea of a revolver that would take a carbine round had a certain appeal from a logistical standpoint, it’s generally agreed that the muzzle blast and flash were….awesome.

Perusing some N-frame records, I found that at least one of these one-handed flamethrowers did make its way into sort of private hands. In this case, the hands of Major General Frank O'Driscoll Hunter, commanding First Air Force at Mitchell Field in NY.

We open with an invoice on the Memorandum Account for a .38/44 Outdoorsman, possibly s/n X23, to be fitted with a 5.000” barrel and cylinder in .30 Carbine. Some rather specific sight instructions were listed as well as mention of another revolver that the General had sent back for work.




This is followed by a letter from Harold Wesson to General Hunter where he advises him that the revolver is ready and has been shipped. The next paragraph, in which HW asks about rumors that the Air Force may be considering a new sidearm might explain the company largess at sending the gun.



General Hunter acknowledged receipt of the revolver in a letter dated 24JUL45 in which he describes his belief that a flat automatic was a better choice.




So, does anyone here in the S&W Brain Trust/Hive Mind know where this one went?

There’s quite a bit of interesting things like this within the archives of the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation and most would never see the light of day without the support of collectors. Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation; you’re a member, aren’t you? Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation

Best,

RM Vivas

 

[quinn]

Interesting stuff, Robert. It was really great to get to visit with you at the Concord Symposium.

 

[Martyk]

The above statement regarding muzzle blast & flash is spot on. I wear ear plugs & muffs when shooting my .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk.

 

[Minshooter]

Does anyone know how they handled the .30 Carbine extraction?
Half moon clips, maybe?

 

[RM Vivas]

My reading of subsequent communication with the General indicates that they used half-moon clips.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[Minshooter]

Thanks.
Always said great minds think alike.
Having fired the .30 Carbine Blackhawk, can second the concussive effect.

 

[Kinman]

The above statement regarding muzzle blast & flash is spot on. I wear ear plugs & muffs when shooting my .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk.

I had a buddy that owned one of those .30 Carbine Super Blackhawks, I had a .44 Super Blackhawk and we would go out to a local gravel pit and take turns shooting our revolvers. I watched him really get down on stuff and knew he could shoot the daylights out of that revolver. One day a gaggle of us were hanging out in front of the building we worked at bench racing, shooting. Someone said noboby could shoot a revolver accurately at 100yds. My buddy said "Ive got one that can." The guy said "At a hundred yards?" Clyde pointed to the set of traffic lights over a block away and said "If you gave me three rounds I bet I could take out that traffic light." I said "If you give him three shots, I'm in on that bet." That shut him up, I knew it was a safe bet, Clyde could roll bowling pins all day long at that range. They are loud, in the same way a 32-20 is.

 

[RebCop]

I fail to see why a .30 carbine revolver would be much louder than a hot .357 magnum. They both have the same case length and the .357 carries more powder. I think a .30 carbine M-19 with full moon clips would be worth having.

 

[flundertaker]

I had a buddy that owned one of those .30 Carbine Super Blackhawks, I had a .44 Super Blackhawk and we would go out to a local gravel pit and take turns shooting our revolvers. I watched him really get down on stuff and knew he could shoot the daylights out of that revolver. One day a gaggle of us were hanging out in front of the building we worked at bench racing, shooting. Someone said noboby could shoot a revolver accurately at 100yds. My buddy said "Ive got one that can." The guy said "At a hundred yards?" Clyde pointed to the set of traffic lights over a block away and said "If you gave me three rounds I bet I could take out that traffic light." I said "If you give him three shots, I'm in on that bet." That shut him up, I knew it was a safe bet, Clyde could roll bowling pins all day long at that range. They are loud, in the same way a 32-20 is.

The Super Blackhawk was only available in .44 Magnum.

 

[Kinman]

The Super Blackhawk was only available in .44 Magnum.

I do make mistakes from time to time.

 

[Matt_X]

I fail to see why a .30 carbine revolver would be much louder than a hot .357 magnum. They both have the same case length and the .357 carries more powder. I think a .30 carbine M-19 with full moon clips would be worth having.

The cartridge is loaded to take advantage of the 16 inch barrel. While there are commercial 357 rounds loaded for use in carbine length barrels, in general .357 is loaded for pistols.

I beleive some letters regarding the Marine Corps testing was in an earlier thread.

Thread 'S&W Archives @UMASS-Amherst - Some serial data, mainly Victory but other stuff too'

Jun 8, 2023

S&W Archives @UMASS-Amherst - Some serial data, mainly Victory but other stuff too

Today was an interesting day.

In searching for new frontiers to explore I learned that the University of Massachusetts-Amherst has an archive with 15 linear feet of Smith & Wesson records.

A quick review of the finding aid ( Smith and Wesson Company – Special Collections & University Archives ) showed enough things to pique my interest so I made the 90 mile drive and went through perhaps %20 of the collection with an emphasis on my field of interest (NYPD) but with an eye towards things that...

• RM Vivas
• Replies: 11
• Forum: S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961

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In Jan 1944 the Ordnance Department (US Army) tested a M1917 modified to .30 carbine that was submitted by S&W. The summary quoted in Larry Ruth's War Baby! Comes Home (aka vol 2) includes the comment "The muzzle blast was very sharp..." The revolver has a standard serial number and the somewhat grainy photo looks shows standard sights and stocks.

More on X23 in a bit.

 

[Matt_X]

So, does anyone here in the S&W Brain Trust/Hive Mind know where this one went?

I can't answer where this one went, but it was serial number X23. Roy Jinks and Peter de Rose provided some photos and research to Larry Ruth for War Baby III. Attached is a photo composite of the right and bottom similar to the photos included in the book, along with a view of the left side.



Photos from the Collection of Larry Ruth
courtesy of The Carbine Collector’s Club
www.USCarbinecal30.com

 

[duman444]

Loudenbooming and flash and awe.

As posters above have referenced shooting through a Blackhawk provides both audible and visual feedback.

A screen grab from a slow motion video. All that powder that should be burning in the long barrel has to go somewhere.