Reduced 357 Loads.

[71vette]

I shoot a “light magnum” load with Win244 that sounds an awful lot like what you are aiming for. It is with coated SWC’s though.

158gr Summit SWC

6gr Win244, 1.61” COAL, SPP



17.4” Henry: 1300fps

4” Trooper MkIII: 1030fps

3.5” Pre-27: 985fps

2.5” 66-7: 975fps

2” Magnum Carry: 953fps

With jacketed and 231/HP-38, Hodgdon is showing 6.2 grains as a minimum at 1100 fps from a 10” barrel. At 25fps per inch, you’d be looking at about 950fps from a 4 inch. I’d start at minimum and see how you like it.

 

[Erv]

Has anyone tried 6 grains Universal? I was gifted a pound of this powder and have never used it before.
Rex

 

[fakahatchee]

My .357 lite loads are 4.5 grains of hp 38 and Berry's plated 125 grain flat points. Easy on my old the hands. Loaded over 8 thousand in the last year on a RCBS rockchucker.

 

[rwsmith]

You can read books and charts, powder burns rates until the cows come home. But you’ll never know what’s going on until you get a chronograph. $600 for a Garmin is a bargain. Several times, I have gotten results so far off of what some printed data said, the printed data was next to worthless except for safe starting charge.

I wouldn’t shoot jacketed bullets in a reduced load for fear of getting one stuck in the barrel. Another good thing about the Garmin is that if you do get one stuck in the barrel, it won’t generate a reading, thus warning you. I’d order some good old fashioned cast/lubed bullets. Coated and plated may be all the rage, but I’ll stick to tried and true.

I shoot 5.4 grains of 231 under a commercial cast 158. That’s good for 975 in my 3 inch Python, and 1000 fps in my 4 inch 686. ES and SD are both low. Very accurate. I’m pretty sure you could slow that load down a bit. But I like it as is.

Be extra careful to not double charge with those fast burning powders. Consider shooting a 22. They’re just as much fun with no fuss.

That's NOT the spirit. This is the reloading forum to solve reloading problem

I've got a older Shooting Chrony which I may bring out but didn't really intend on going "stuck bullet" low, something in the lower 900s should do well I guess.


I always use a RCBS Lockout die in station 3.


And let my beloved 357 DA revolvers become safe queens?
Sad enough that's what's happened to my other big bore magnums.
My poor S&W 460V

Like I said earlier, your problem is an easy one to solve since your requirement is just a reduced load. That's what the reloading forum is for and to suggest changing to .22 just isn't in the spirit of reloading. I think that you are very much on the right track.

Once I was experimenting with VERY reduced 30-06 loadings and was happy to have achieved a load that felt nearly like a .22. Of course somebody had to say, "Why don't you get a .22?" Well, I HAVE a .22, but where is the fun in that?? The idea was doing it. I experimented with both ends of the spectrum from mild to wild and everything in between. I also did some experiments with heavy for caliber rounds, like 165 gr. out of a 9mm. It was tough to get them to work (OAL) and they weren't any good for a defensive round, but I had the side benefit that some of the loadings were VERY accurate shooters,

 

[rwsmith]

Has anyone tried 6 grains Universal? I was gifted a pound of this powder and have never used it before.
Rex

6 gr Universal sounds like a warmer load.

 

[rwsmith]

6 gr Universal sounds like a warmer load. Yeah 6.2 gr. is max for a 158 grain SWC. For a jacketed it's 6.3 gr.

 

[sniper]

Thanks to everyone for their contributions so far!
I may switch over to the plated bullets soon but right now I have 1000 Zero 158 JSP on the shelf I'd love to load up.
I'm thinking 5.0 - 5.5g of HP38 should get me in the 900fps range and be a non-sticking safe load?
What do you guys think?
TIA Sal

In my never-humble opinion, sticking bullets in a pistol barrel has been greatly overdiscussed. Not that I haven't done it myself, but It is my firm belief that no reliable manual's standard .38 Special starting load will stick a bullet in a 4-6" 357 Magnum barrel...using 357 magnum brass and standard primers. Lead/cast/plated or coated bullets only. Experiment if you must, but do have a 5/16" brass or aluminum rod in your bag for when the unthinkable happens!
Never had the urge to try with jacketed bullets, as they need about 800 fps to even think about expanding. They just won't go very fast...not that they will bounce off things, except steel targets. Accuracy may be substandard. YMMV!

 

[Sal1950]

In my never-humble opinion, sticking bullets in a pistol barrel has been greatly overdiscussed. Not that I haven't done it myself, but It is my firm belief that no reliable manual's standard .38 Special starting load will stick a bullet in a 4-6" 357 Magnum barrel...using 357 magnum brass and standard primers.

I stuck a couple bullets over my 40+ reloading years, but only when some distraction caused me to build a primer only, no powder round. That's what got me to start using the RCBS Lock Out Die.
Wish I had a 5 station press but I'm not going to spend all that money this late in the game. LOL

 

[venomballistics]

That's NOT the spirit. This is the reloading forum to solve reloading problem

Like I said earlier, your problem is an easy one to solve since your requirement is just a reduced load. That's what the reloading forum is for and to suggest changing to .22 just isn't in the spirit of reloading. I think that you are very much on the right track.

Once I was experimenting with VERY reduced 30-06 loadings and was happy to have achieved a load that felt nearly like a .22. Of course somebody had to say, "Why don't you get a .22?" Well, I HAVE a .22, but where is the fun in that?? The idea was doing it. I experimented with both ends of the spectrum from mild to wild and everything in between. I also did some experiments with heavy for caliber rounds, like 165 gr. out of a 9mm. It was tough to get them to work (OAL) and they weren't any good for a defensive round, but I had the side benefit that some of the loadings were VERY accurate shooters,

I've done the same thing in 06, and arrived at the same train station via a more convoluted route. At the end of an exhaustive journey into suppressed loads, I looked upon the results and thought " say, you know what else this would be good for...."
I went decades without a 22 and never missed it.
It can bear fruit

 

[kadams]

I think that’ll work. I’ve not found w231 to be especially position sensitive, but will check it when I have time. I have a bunch of those same bullets.

4.0gr of titegroup was the load that I was having trouble with.

4.0 grains of tite group with a Jacketed bullet you were getting 200-400 fps?

 

[Jimbo41]

4.0 grains of tite group with a Jacketed bullet you were getting 200-400 fps?

Yes, well technically 0-400 fps from a new marlin 1894. I was expecting more or I wouldn’t have done it

 

[Jimbo41]

Any damage to the baffles?

None at all.

 

[kadams]

I'm 75, very arthritic and looking to load very lite recoiling ammo. I much prefer to use 357 brass and have a lot of both 158g real Jacketed Soft Points and also Plated FPs in stock. I also have quite a bit of Hodgdon Universal and HP38 on the shelf.
I've been looking to some charts for Cowboy Action loads but they all only refer to lead swc bullets. I wonder if some friends here could give me a few ideas on getting some of these numbers transposed to the bullets I now have for sub 900fps loads?
TIA, Sal

View attachment 775148

could you please post the Cowboy action data for .44 Special?

 

[Sal1950]

could you please post the Cowboy action data for .44 Special?

How's this, taken from Hodgdon 2012 Basic Reloading Manual.
Since Hodgdon no longer publishes Cowboy loading I don't think they'll object to this reprint.
I'll also attach the page as a pdf.
Hope this helps.

 

[Jay Dee]

I use the classic target load. 148gr wad cutter over 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

 

[docbrazos]

could you please post the Cowboy action data for .44 Special?

Unfortunately The powder for my favorite load isn't currently available. 5.5 gr TrailBoss behind a 200 gr lead RNFP. I use the same 5.5grs and 200 gr bullets in 45 Colt, 44-40 and 44 mag cases. Most mentioned powders are pretty forgiving on minimum loads. I liked 3.5 Clays and a 125 in both 38 and 357 cases, resulting in my 38 Rifle rounds being a little faster than my 357 pistol rounds. Again a non-existent powder to day. 231, Universal Clays are powders I wouldn't be afraid of going below published minimum to get the desired velocity. I'm sure there are others.

 

[kadams]

How's this, taken from Hodgdon 2012 Basic Reloading Manual.
Since Hodgdon no longer publishes Cowboy loading I don't think they'll object to this reprint.
I'll also attach the page as a pdf.
Hope this helps.

View attachment 776731

Thankyou very much!