So… is the Beretta M9 still the Worst?

[eclayton]

It's funny, it seems those that actually carried the M9 into harms way almost universally despised the pistol.

It's only the internet commandos that seem to hem and haw for it.

I carried the M9 on three combat tours (1x Iraq, 2x Afghanistan) as a Marine infantry officer and had no problems whatsoever with it. I am not a great fan of military 9mm ball ammo; and I prefer immediate readiness without having to flip forward a slide-mounted safety. That said, the M9s in every armory I managed, from the company to the Regimental level, rarely failed. Every one I was issued had no problem shooting expert scores. I witnessed almost no malfunctions on ranges, and when a shooter called for an alibi it was almost always boneheaded operator error (like charging the pistol when it was already charged, throwing one of his own rounds onto the grass). I didn't mind the girth or the weight, which was not even noticeable in a proper holster, with all the other gear we wore. The long double action trigger pull reminded me of a DA revolver and instead of whining about it, I just practiced and learned to shoot it well. If the M9 had night sights, a decocker instead of a slide mounted safety (like the 92G), and were either chambered for something bigger or we were allowed to carry modern 9mm hollow points, it would have been just about perfect.

I also honestly did not know anyone else in the Marine Corps who "despised" the M9.

 

[h2ohhh]

Based on a sample of only one, my Beretta 92F, purchased new in 1988 has been fired a great deal with factory loads and my own cast bullet handloads. Never a problem, it doesn't jam , and it's accurate. All 9mm pistols are heavy if you must load them to full capacity, but the weight makes them easier for the user to shoot well. I could find a much better boat anchor than any pistol. The safety as well as the single-action/ double-action design makes it among the very best. The only drawback I can see with the Beretta is shared by many other pistols: the cartridge for which it is chambered.

Don't laugh but I have a stainless Taurus PT100 in .40 (a much better round than a 92 Beretta). It was built in the Beretta Factory in Brazil when Taurus bought the factory which came with plans from Beretta, the Beretta tooling and even the same employees. They moved the safety to the frame and added a decocker. It's a fine pistol and weight 2 lbs., 2 ounces empty. I have an Sig P 226 in .40 as well and it too is 2 lbs., 2 ounces. Either one makes a good pistol for my truck or bedroom drawer but I carry an HK VP9 for comfort when doing security work. It's 1 lb., 9 ounces.

 

[S-W4EVER]

In my experience as a LE Firearms Instructor, it was the same guys that always had FTF's while qualifying, mostly due to inadequate maintenance (lack of lubrication for starters). I cleaned my service revolver/pistol at least weekly during my career, sometimes more often due to weather.

I've seen 92F's & Glocks FTF, but it was always the same guys that had the problems. You'd think they'd learn…

 

[Warren Sear]

I carried the M9 on three combat tours (1x Iraq, 2x Afghanistan) as a Marine infantry officer and had no problems whatsoever with it. I am not a great fan of military 9mm ball ammo; and I prefer immediate readiness without having to flip forward a slide-mounted safety. That said, the M9s in every armory I managed, from the company to the Regimental level, rarely failed. Every one I was issued had no problem shooting expert scores. I witnessed almost no malfunctions on ranges, and when a shooter called for an alibi it was almost always boneheaded operator error (like charging the pistol when it was already charged, throwing one of his own rounds onto the grass). I didn't mind the girth or the weight, which was not even noticeable in a proper holster, with all the other gear we wore. The long double action trigger pull reminded me of a DA revolver and instead of whining about it, I just practiced and learned to shoot it well. If the M9 had night sights, a decocker instead of a slide mounted safety (like the 92G), and were either chambered for something bigger or we were allowed to carry modern 9mm hollow points, it would have been just about perfect.

I also honestly did not know anyone else in the Marine Corps who "despised" the M9.

The first thing I did to my Beretta M92 after I bought it was to change the safety/de-cocker to a "G" type de-cocker. My understanding is that is how the pistol was originally designed, but the US military wanted Beretta to change it to some kind of half-assed safety.

Definitely use hollow point ammo, and definitely shoot it enough to get used to how the trigger and gun operate.

I have never known anyone who seriously wonders if the Beretta M92/M9 was ever "the worst". It is instead, one of the very best.

 

[CH4]

First time I've heard Beretta/M9 and worst used in the same sentence. I've carried a Beretta on duty and as a contractor in the Middle East. Never an issue with any of mine and rarely any with my colleague's examples. That said, I would have preferred the M11 because of its smaller size.

 

[Riposte1]

To all of you Glock fanboys out there ( and I'm one of them ) who think the Glock is infallible. I bought a NIB Glock 17 Gen 4 around 8 years ago . Totally stock and unmodified gun for range and IDPA use . At just over 8k rounds the tip of the striker broke clean off and left me with a paperweight.
I called Glock and they said too bad so sad but the striker is considered a wear part and has no warranty.
Yes Glocks can and do break . Keep a spare .

I keep trying to tell folks - all guns are individuals as are all people who shoot them - how your personal gun works is a function of its own tolerances and how you hold/shoot it.

At least when it comes to auto-pistols, revolvers are more forgiving (but sometimes suprisingly finiky when it comes to ammo - but that is a story for another day).

I have plenty of examples but I found this one to be good enough. I went to church with a young man who was a tinkerer and he had built several FN/FALs and AKs from kits. He joined the Army and turned 21 while there, and he treated himself to a birthday present with a brand new Glock 17 gen 3 - he called me one night and asked if he could come over - since he was pretty squared away on rifles he could not understand why he kept having stoppages in his Glock.

It was summer and my son, then I think about 10, was off from school so we met on our home range. I watched the young man shoot - he did indeed have 1-2 stoppages from each of his three magazines. I tried the pistol - it ran fine for me. My son, who was pretty light in middle school tried it and had a stoppage every other round!

I had the soldier shoot again and investigated every stoppage - it was an "override" - the slide comes back enough to eject the spent round but the "cartridge rail" picks up the next round in the extractor groove - also known as "short stroking".

BTW, that young man stayed in the Army, later was in the 5th SFG, retired as a Capt. and Joined the National Guard where I ran into him again as a Major in the 20th SFG (he was only in his 30s so I imagine he made Col. before he retired). After he beefed up a bit he didn't have any trouble with his Glock.

When I ran a gun shop the #1 gun brought back was a .380 ACP (the brand did not matter) brought in almost always by a woman who's husband/boyfriend had chosen it for her. Invariably the complaint was the gun didn't work - I would take the gun out and shoot it and it worked fine - we had three females on staff - they would shoot it and it worked fine (but they knew how to hold a gun!).

I have dozens of examples, but the bottom line is - a gun might not work for you but it might work for someone else!

Just Ramblin'

Riposte

 

[Trooper224]

I've lived half a century with the 1911. In military service, law enforcement and personal carry. I poo pooed the Beretta for decades, having been in servitude to Uncle Sugar during the change over.

I was also working close to Naval Special Warfare during that period. I can say with fairly close second hand information that the slide breakage incidents were overblown.

I poo pooed the Italian Stallion for about three decades without ever actually shooting one. Then, I gave it a chance. I now have five with over 35k rounds on a single example.

Right before I retired from law enforcement I was involved in the T&E process for new pistol selection. It came down to the Glock 17 or the P320. We did not choose the P320.

These are my bonafides, which lead me to the conclusion that the OP is dramtically in error with ninety percent of his opinion.

 

[Campino1]

Having carried a Sig 226 in 9mm and then 220 in .45 for the majority of my LE career I absolutely feel the Sig was a vastly superior pistol to the Beretta. The M9 always had the ergonomics of a brick- they won the contract based upon price and political considerations.

 

[Darryl Z]

I bought a 92F back in the late 1980's. It shot beautifully, buttery smooth action, very accurate. I just never could master the long D/A 1st shot then short S/A follow up when practicing double taps

 

[Airdale26]

I agree. I have had very similar experiences and comments from military services personnel. In SEA 1973, SW model 10, and model 66 in 357 were provided/acquired. But everyone desired to have M1911A1.
In some of my conversations with individuals regarding the M9 was that it was easier to train and score/qualify then the 1911 frames. Most had indicated some issues with wear and parts.

 

[Airdale26]

Having carried a Sig 226 in 9mm and then 220 in .45 for the majority of my LE career I absolutely feel the Sig was a vastly superior pistol to the Beretta. The M9 always had the ergonomics of a brick- they won the contract based upon price and political considerations.

The SIG P226 and P220 are very similar in design, size and function. Agree in their reliability, functionality. Both excellent duty sidearms.

 

[crasig]

I never had a desire to own one.

 

[9Mary7]

I bought a 92F back in the late 1980's. It shot beautifully, buttery smooth action, very accurate. I just never could master the long D/A 1st shot then short S/A follow up when practicing double taps

That was most likely an Italian made pistol. My experience has been that the Italy pistols are superior to the US made ones. I have my issued Italian 92fs from '89. It has easily 20k rounds through it. The only spring replaced was the hammer spring, "D" replaced, and a "G" conversion done after I retired. No stoppages, FTFs or malfunctions. It is smooth as glass. The only US made 92s I have are a Wilson Combat and an LTT. Both approach my original service 92 in smooth function and are the only US made 92s I would buy.
FWIW, I have had occasion to loan my service 92 to military guys at our local range so they could experience what the M9 should feel like.....all have been impressed with the well broken-in Italian.

 

[squidsix]

With all the hubbub and friendly banter about the teething issues with the SIG-Sauer M17/P320, one has to wonder if the much-hated M9 is really that bad?

Hey, at least the unintended kill count of the antiquated M9 is still 0. With that said, we all know the broken slide issues of the early M9s that maimed SEALs.

So which would you rather have? A half-baked plastic ticking time bomb, or an overweight Italian boat anchor with a lousy trigger and breakage issues?

Or, how about this?

View attachment 781825

Sorry, but the M1911A1 is the finest fighting handgun EVER MADE.

If I were serving, I'd take one from mothballs and carry it with pride. The M9 is was a mistake. But the M17 is a disaster.

Glenn

I love the 1911
But if given a choice on a deployment, in an unknown environment, I would bring the M9 over the 1911 100% of the time.
I have not been in a lot of fights, but the M9 saved my bacon in 2007. I dearly love the 1911 and have over a dozen of them, but my bedside gun is a Beretta. I was a small arms instructor and armorer for many years in the USN. I did not see problems with the M9 that were not either blatantly the shooter's fault or just sloppy/lazy maintenance.
The M9 was accurate, reliable, safe, and held up to the monstrous abuse we put it thru.

 

[eclayton]

That was most likely an Italian made pistol. My experience has been that the Italy pistols are superior to the US made ones. I have my issued Italian 92fs from '89. It has easily 20k rounds through it. The only spring replaced was the hammer spring, "D" replaced, and a "G" conversion done after I retired. No stoppages, FTFs or malfunctions. It is smooth as glass. The only US made 92s I have are a Wilson Combat and an LTT. Both approach my original service 92 in smooth function and are the only US made 92s I would buy.
FWIW, I have had occasion to loan my service 92 to military guys at our local range so they could experience what the M9 should feel like.....all have been impressed with the well broken-in Italian.

I also put the D spring and G conversion in my 92FS, and the pistol is amazing with those easy changes. Mine was made in Maryland in the mid 1990s, and at that time, the commercial 92FS was part-for-part identical to the M9. No plastic parts: the only differences between my 92FS and the M9s in our armory were the commercial roll marks and the white dots on the rear sights (M9 had a single white bar). My 92FS is probably the smoothest cycling pistol action I've ever felt and it has never malfunctioned in 30 years and many thousands of rounds.

 

[VaTom]

That was most likely an Italian made pistol. My experience has been that the Italy pistols are superior to the US made ones. I have my issued Italian 92fs from '89. It has easily 20k rounds through it. The only spring replaced was the hammer spring, "D" replaced, and a "G" conversion done after I retired. No stoppages, FTFs or malfunctions. It is smooth as glass. The only US made 92s I have are a Wilson Combat and an LTT. Both approach my original service 92 in smooth function and are the only US made 92s I would buy.
FWIW, I have had occasion to loan my service 92 to military guys at our local range so they could experience what the M9 should feel like.....all have been impressed with the well broken-in Italian.

My 1985 92F is Italian made with Italian made factory magazines. Smooth as silk, fit and finish superior, never a problem. I have never shot a US made Beretta to compare. Bought it used a number of years ago at an auction so don't know how many rounds have been through it but judging by the condition not a lot. Yes double action trigger is long but for someone who trained with and carried a duty Model 10 and 64 doesn't bother me.

 

[Doug M.]

I think Desert One was the location of the actual failure in internal references, but my memory may well be flawed.

 

[Michaelp57]

I only have experience with one 92 series pistol(my M9A3). It's accurate and has very little recoil. Keep it clean and lubed and it functions flawlessly. Get lazy and forget to clean it and it doesn't like to feed the watered down range fodder, but will eat hotter ammo like a champ. It's also the first hammer fired gun that I have taken down to bare frame. It was an absolute pain to figure out getting it back together, but I got it back together over the span of a couple of days.

All that said, before I got my PC SD40, that M9A3 was my baby. It still is, just not in the same way as my SD. I ate dollar menu for lunch every day to save up for it. It was only my 3rd gun and it remains my favorite shooter to this day.

 

[shil]

Years ago, I owned a 92FS. I enjoyed the pistol, had no issues with it, but always thought it was a bit large for a 9mm, especially in the grip area, in my dainty hands. I passed the pistol to my son whose hands are like Shrek's. He loves it. My 9mms these days are Browning Hi Powers, I have a couple of .45 1911a1s, but my love of revolvers is still strong.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

It's funny, it seems those that actually carried the M9 into harms way almost universally despised the pistol.

It's only the internet commandos that seem to hem and haw for it.

100% false. The only issue I ever had with my M9 in Iraq was that it kept getting borrowed by my NCOs for walking around with when they didn't want to carry their carbines; I eventually just tossed Bullwinkle a spare Serpa holster I had and we time-shared it.