So… is the Beretta M9 still the Worst?

Glenn R. McMannly said:
With all the hubbub and friendly banter about the teething issues with the SIG-Sauer M17/P320, one has to wonder if the much-hated M9 is really that bad?

Hey, at least the unintended kill count of the antiquated M9 is still 0. With that said, we all know the broken slide issues of the early M9s that maimed SEALs.

So which would you rather have? A half-baked plastic ticking time bomb, or an overweight Italian boat anchor with a lousy trigger and breakage issues?

Or, how about this?

View attachment 781825

Sorry, but the M1911A1 is the finest fighting handgun EVER MADE.

If I were serving, I'd take one from mothballs and carry it with pride. The M9 is was a mistake. But the M17 is a disaster.

Glenn
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Point well taken. The M9 was a nod to a changing gun world. The 1911 is a legend and rightly so. Either is better than the 320 platform. All my competition guns are 1911s. I've got Glocks, but they stay home most of the time.
 
The beretta 92 is highly thought of by the likes of Bill Wilson, Mas Ayoub and Ernest Langdon.

I have several going back to my first a 1988 Compact FS 13+1[Now with D-spring, Thin G-10 grips and Mec-GAR 15rd flush fit mags]
My newest a Wilson Combat Centurion Tactical.

Todays 92 isn't the same gun as the 1985 M-9
Compacts and Centurions have a shorter 4.3" slide [What IMO the M-9 should have been]
G decocker only model
15+1 compact and 17/18+1 Centurion
3rd gen locking block
Thin G-10 grips
radiused backstrap
changeable front/rear sights
some with a rail if you want one

As a revolver shooter the double action first shot isn't a problem especially with a D-spring, and IMHO the double action first shot fits nicely into my "OODA loop"
 
BAM-BAM said:
As a revolver shooter the double action first shot isn't a problem especially with a D-spring, and IMHO the double action first shot fits nicely into my "OODA loop"
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I came to this realization late last year (I know, I'm a bit slow) and picked up a super clean M9A1. After shooting revolvers for the last several years I find I can make the switch to the Beretta much easier than I can to my M&P. Plus I realized I like an external hammer, a metal frame, etc.
 
Plenty of luv out there for the Beretta 92. Great pistols.

Sig has now taken up the mantle of the worst.
 
fkienast said:
I can't remember much about the M-9 pistols in the USMC.
The safety was different.
It was so accurate compared to our old 1911's.
It held a lot of bullets. For Desert Storm, I had 3 magazines and I was issued 9, that's right, NINE BULLETS, my share of the ammo we received.
Turned in 9 rounds at the end.
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That certainly sounds like the Marine Corps. For OIF 1, as a mortar platoon commander, the M9 was the only personal weapon I rated. I had two magazines but the battalion could only spare me 15 rounds. I managed to scrounge and sign for an old Mossberg 500 shotgun, but we had NO ammo for that. Fortunately I found our parent regiment training some new guys with their brand new Benellis, and politely asked permission to test fire my Mossberg with some of their ammo, then "accidentally" left the range with 20 rounds of 12 gauge buckshot in my pockets.
 
Glenn R. McMannly said:
With all the hubbub and friendly banter about the teething issues with the SIG-Sauer M17/P320, one has to wonder if the much-hated M9 is really that bad?
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Who so "hates" the M9.
I own a few of the Beretta based pistols and the are wonderful, reliable pistols. The one serious issue was the failure of the locking blocks after thousands of rounds in the early models. New design blocks are failure free.

I have a number of 1911 designs and though they are quite reliable they are not without the occasional jam.
OTOH, the 45 acp can be relied upon to take a hit down, where a 9mm not so much.
 
Sal1950 said:
...OTOH, the 45 acp can be relied upon to take a hit down, where a 9mm not so much.
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I haven't shot that many guys lately, but from what I have gleaned from the www, 45 ACP and 9mm with hollow-point bullets are about equal in one-shot stopping power. They are tied for second place behind the 357 Magnum using hollow-point ammo.
 
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Warren Sear said:
SIG apparently dropped a turd with the 320. Other than that, SIGs have been among the best.
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It remains to be seen how the 320 series will work out or whether the 320 is indeed a turd. Right now, there is a lot of hype, a lot of anecdotes and little real evidence. Everything on the web gets blown out of proportion. All of that hype carries over to the lawyers of the agencies that have pulled the system from service.

The lack of evidence will change, and Sig will either have to demonstrate why their gun is safe, fix any real problems, or eat a lot of 320s. In the meantime, mine remains in the desk drawer, where it has lived for the past two years, loaded and chambered, as my immediate go-to piece, while I wait for real answers. (my desk drawer 320 is pointed towards the outside of the house, if anyone is wondering, and so far, there are no holes in my wall)
 
65-2x2 said:
It remains to be seen how the 320 series will work out or whether the 320 is indeed a turd. Right now, there is a lot of hype, a lot of anecdotes and little real evidence. Everything on the web gets blown out of proportion. All of that hype carries over to the lawyers of the agencies that have pulled the system from service.
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We'll see, but I think there's enough evidence to show a pre-cocked striker fired design was a bad idea.
I bet they'll never do another like that.
 
Warren Sear said:
I haven't shot that many guys lately, but from what I have gleaned from the www, 45 ACP and 9mm with hollow-point bullets are about equal in one-shot stopping power. They are tied for second place behind the 357 Magnum using hollow-point ammo.
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Sal1950 said:
We'll see, but I think there's enough evidence to show a pre-cocked striker fired design was a bad idea.
I bet they'll never do another like that.
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I'd never heard of a 320 until this thread, but it has to be another striker gun. Some certainly need another one. Can't imagine how you folks keep up with all the 9mm pistols produced in recent times.
 
I carried a 1911 for most of my police career. When I retired, I spent two years in Kosovo as an international police officer and three years as a police advisor in Afghanistan. The issue sidearm for both missions was the Beretta.

I feel that the Beretta is too big for a 9mm. I much prefer the Glock 19. That said, I shot 100% on every qualification where I used the Beretta. Go figure.

While in Kosovo, I did a two week stint as a firearms instructor, running our fellow officers through qualifications. The other instructors and I found out quickly that dry Berettas jam. We all carried bottles of lube in our pockets. Once oiled, they shot fine.
 
fkienast said:
I can't remember much about the M-9 pistols in the USMC.
The safety was different.
It was so accurate compared to our old 1911's.
It held a lot of bullets. For Desert Storm, I had 3 magazines and I was issued 9, that's right, NINE BULLETS, my share of the ammo we received.
Turned in 9 rounds at the end.
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LOL , I was a contractor training the Iraqi Police and teaching them to shoot AK's and Glocks. We had hundred's of thousand rounds of each. We needed more 5.56 as our company only sprang for 1550 rounds each. A MP unit came by and had the same problem that you had. We traded a caese of good 9mm for two ammo cans of 5.56 and everybody was happy.
 
Muley Gil said:
I carried a 1911 for most of my police career. When I retired, I spent two years in Kosovo as an international police officer and three years as a police advisor in Afghanistan. The issue sidearm for both missions was the Beretta.

I feel that the Beretta is too big for a 9mm. I much prefer the Glock 19. That said, I shot 100% on every qualification where I used the Beretta. Go figure.

While in Kosovo, I did a two week stint as a firearms instructor, running our fellow officers through qualifications. The other instructors and I found out quickly that dry Berettas jam. We all carried bottles of lube in our pockets. Once oiled, they shot fine.
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I worked for Dyn in Iraq and we found much the same also the M-4's liked to be wet also.
 
Sal1950 said:
We'll see, but I think there's enough evidence to show a pre-cocked striker fired design was a bad idea.
I bet they'll never do another like that.
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Glocks are pre-cocked (not fully but only about 2/3 cocked), as are several other striker fired designs, including the P-365 which does not seem to have the same problem.

There have been striker fired guns that had the strickers cocked since the early 1900s.

I admit, the 320 has apparent problems but, while I don't genereally like striker fired guns (for other reasons), I can't say they are terrible designs in general.

Riposte
 
RebCop said:
I worked for Dyn in Iraq and we found much the same also the M-4's liked to be wet also.
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I did my 5 years with Dyn as well.

When the State Department decided to issue handguns to the Afghan police, we received a bunch of S&W Sigma 9mms. The ammo we were shipped for the Afghans was actually newer than the stuff our staff was carrying. There was a rumor going around at the time that some of the ammo was swapped out. :D
 
When the M9 was first adopted, I thought it was the ugliest handgun ever made. I have since come to appreciate the pattern, but FAR prefer the Taurus PT92 that kept the safety on the frame, and included a decock function. In fact, PT92s are my favorite pistols!
I did own a Beretta 92 for a while, so I was able to directly compare the two safety systems side-by-side. For me, the Taurus won.
 
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My wife, a retired senior Navy Officer, has a Beretta 92, as her "house" gun. She carried an M9 on Active Duty, qualified expert with it several times, and is very comfortable with its operation. When she decided to get her own gun many years ago - she went with what she knew.

It's a great gun. Accurate. Reliable. Good capacity. Ergonomic.
 
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