Revolver vs. Semi Auto for CCW

[Deadeye Dick]

These are just my opinions on something that was actually rather hard for me. You believe something to be true, and after decades I think I may have been wrong. I am an honorably retired police officer, and I am now a professional CCW trainer for a major sheriff's department. Which means I'm still learning to shoot...

While I was still a cop I carried a S&W 342 M&P .38spl off duty in a fanny pack. Just before I retired in 2022, I bought a Glock 43X. I had it cut and milled at the Glock Store in Nashville and had them put on an EPS Carry red dot. I have trained with it for hundreds of hours and became really good with it. I love this gun!
In my classes I teach that many of the civilian assaults happen when you are isolated and most vulnerable. Many don't know they're under attack until they have already been shot, stabbed or hit with a high probability of more than one assailant. If you reach for your weapon, the bad guy(s) may see this, intensify their attack, and try to take the gun from you. At this point there are many things that can go wrong with your pistol. Assuming you are right handed, you are using your left hand to defend yourself until your weapon joins the party, here are seven things that could go wrong:
1. Ammo failure, you now need two hands to clear the malfunction. You can do this with one hand, but you need to train a lot to become unconscious competent.
2. Bad guy grabs you gun and purposely takes it off battery.
3. Bad guy then runs his finger along the trigger guard and drops your magazine. If this is a California gun, you are in big trouble.
4. Bad guy puts on the safety during the struggle,
5. Bad guy grabs the muzzle of your gun and uses it as a lever to either turn it inwardly towards you and you get shot with your own gun, or turns it outwardly and peels it out of you hand.
6. Bad guy holds your arm so that if you get a shot off, you end up limp-wristing and causes a double feed malfunction.
7. Bad guys shoves your gun in a position where if you get a shot off, the slide hits you or something else disrupting the cycle of operation, causing a double feed.

All these vulnerabilities can be eliminated by using a snub nose revolver. The only downside is 5-6 rounds. As my police academy range instructor, Mr. Mumford used to say, "You got what you got, you know what you know. If you go into a gun fight with only three rounds in your magazine, you better make them count!"

For now anyway, my Glock sits in the safe, and my J-frame goes with me everywhere I go, again.

Thoughts?

I get what you are saying, and agree with every one of your points. However, if you make it a habit to practice situational awareness you can greatly reduce the chance of a surprise attach. I am always in condition yellow whenever I am out of the house. Another plus to this is that perps look for easy targets and tend to pass on someone who looks alert and ready for trouble. My biggest beef with a revolver is not so much it's limited shot capacity, (statistics show that most gun fights are over in 2 shots or less) my problem is their girth. I find even a small 5 shot J-frame just to uncomfortable to carry IWB because of the cylinder. OWB carry is more comfortable, but not always an option depending on circumstances and dress requirements. And as a trainer, I'm sure that you are aware that there are close quarter techniques that you can practice to greatly reduce the chance of a bad guy getting his hands on your weapon.

 

[Boxlock]

Thoughts...

I carry a gun for one reason, as insurance for a day I hope never happens. And because I am not going to be at the mercy of some one else. I practice and stay proficient because I know, if that day happens, I'm on my own, no one is coming to save me. And I want the best possible advantage I can have, with a gun that I can fight and win with. A gun with enough power and capacity.


That gun is not a snub nosed .38. This is 2025. There are better choices.

I love snubbies in 38 spl! Up close they are effective!

 

[fatcat3]

This is true. My son had to get pepper sprayed and tasered in training. He said the pepper spray was worse. Some people even vomited from it. Who told me one guy stood there like nothing was happening. It's weird.

Worked in the super max and have been maced so many time I lost count. (David I still don't believe it was ever accidental no one is that bad a shot that consistently) Add to that it was interesting to go to the men's room, leave your lunch unattended, etc. I built up a tolerance to it. That was a long time ago, I wouldn't count on that being the case today. I worked with one guard that the faintest wiff and he would lock up like a fence post, at the same time one of the care and treatment workers would use his mace to liven up his ham sandwich. I can say I never maced an inmate, though I emptied a few cans. That was back when we worked at the super max, not the special management unit, inmates weren't clients, guards weren't correctional officers and there were no hug-a-thug programs. Guards didn't go running to personal for being harassed, no one cried about hazing (I was set on fire, stop your whining) respect and trust was earned not bestowed. Okay a few "discussions" took place after work, in the staff parking lot, where no cameras were present.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

These are just my opinions on something that was actually rather hard for me. You believe something to be true, and after decades I think I may have been wrong. I am an honorably retired police officer, and I am now a professional CCW trainer for a major sheriff's department. Which means I'm still learning to shoot...

While I was still a cop I carried a S&W 342 M&P .38spl off duty in a fanny pack. Just before I retired in 2022, I bought a Glock 43X. I had it cut and milled at the Glock Store in Nashville and had them put on an EPS Carry red dot. I have trained with it for hundreds of hours and became really good with it. I love this gun!
In my classes I teach that many of the civilian assaults happen when you are isolated and most vulnerable. Many don't know they're under attack until they have already been shot, stabbed or hit with a high probability of more than one assailant. If you reach for your weapon, the bad guy(s) may see this, intensify their attack, and try to take the gun from you. At this point there are many things that can go wrong with your pistol. Assuming you are right handed, you are using your left hand to defend yourself until your weapon joins the party, here are seven things that could go wrong:
1. Ammo failure, you now need two hands to clear the malfunction. You can do this with one hand, but you need to train a lot to become unconscious competent.
2. Bad guy grabs you gun and purposely takes it off battery.
3. Bad guy then runs his finger along the trigger guard and drops your magazine. If this is a California gun, you are in big trouble.
4. Bad guy puts on the safety during the struggle,
5. Bad guy grabs the muzzle of your gun and uses it as a lever to either turn it inwardly towards you and you get shot with your own gun, or turns it outwardly and peels it out of you hand.
6. Bad guy holds your arm so that if you get a shot off, you end up limp-wristing and causes a double feed malfunction.
7. Bad guys shoves your gun in a position where if you get a shot off, the slide hits you or something else disrupting the cycle of operation, causing a double feed.

All these vulnerabilities can be eliminated by using a snub nose revolver. The only downside is 5-6 rounds. As my police academy range instructor, Mr. Mumford used to say, "You got what you got, you know what you know. If you go into a gun fight with only three rounds in your magazine, you better make them count!"

For now anyway, my Glock sits in the safe, and my J-frame goes with me everywhere I go, again.

Thoughts?

There is NO VERSUS...........Carry what you like and can use...........Scenarios NEVER happen the way you plan.

 

[Mister Coffee]

There is NO VERSUS...........Carry what you like and can use...........Scenarios NEVER happen the way you plan.

But if you lived in today's world, and if there were roving gangs of armed men, and if these men were not a bunch of undisciplined and inept imbeciles and degenerates but were, in fact, a sinister, well-organized, nasty-looking group from drug cartel that just crossed the border, maybe from Canada, I don't know, those Canadians look mean to me, then what would you carry? Select Fire M4, right?






Gentlemen, turn on your Sarcasm Detectors.

 

[Bald1]

Figures a guy going by mister coffee would reference Canada. Tim Hortons thinks they're the only ones that know how to brew it.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

But if you lived in today's world, and if there were roving gangs of armed men, and if these men were not a bunch of undisciplined and inept imbeciles and degenerates but were, in fact, a sinister, well-organized, nasty-looking group from drug cartel that just crossed the border, maybe from Canada, I don't know, those Canadians look mean to me, then what would you carry? Select Fire M4, right?






Gentlemen, turn on your Sarcasm Detectors.

Jumped in by the DeGrassi dance-and-glee clubs lol

 

[Law-dog]

In most situations you run out of time before you run out of ammo. Time is essential, which is why you must always be alert and be planning in your head what you will do if a guy pops out of that upcoming alley....

In most situations you run out of time before you run out of ammo.
This is possible the most misunderstood concept of any fight. A sucker punch will win most fights, we know that. We also know that after one tap on the nose, one that follows quickly maintains the momentum of the fight and keeps the opponent off balance and likely on the run, or at least concentrating on avoiding more unpleasant things happening to his body.

Whether hitting someone with stones or a firehose or bullets, the timing of the attack is often what prevails.

These realities are what often allows someone with a 22 or 380 prevail over 9mm or 45. Sudden and repeated blows have value.

That said, a couple taps from a 38 snub gun may well be all that is needed. Even in cases of multiple attackers, when the battle is being lost, the others often lose interest in continuing the fight.

Not saying there is anything wrong with the 15 plus one rounds in the gun I carried today or the one with 7+1 I carried yesterday. Just saying, timing is often everything, kind of like attitude is everything. Quick and decisive is what wins fights, including gun fights.

My opinion of course but I think most folks believe in the concept.

 

[Law-dog]

Most of the crims around here are 50 yrs younger than me. They travel in packs of 3-4 and would be more than happy to kick the crap out of an old fart like me just for grins. Half of these kids carry a Glock with switch on it. I carry an old Colt Cobra with the grip wrapped in friction tape wrapped to fit my hand. It's loaded with 158 gr LSWCHP's. If I'm jumped I'll make sure 1 maybe 2 won't live to enjoy the $0.59 they take off my body.

And if you center tap each of those 4 one time, you still have two rounds left. Good planning.

Those Glock switches to scare me, unless they were on my gun. Good guys do not have those, so we are at disadvantage is they are still able to shoot back.

Remind me to stay out of your neighborhood. lol

 

[Law-dog]

Worked in the super max and have been maced so many time I lost count. (David I still don't believe it was ever accidental no one is that bad a shot that consistently) Add to that it was interesting to go to the men's room, leave your lunch unattended, etc. I built up a tolerance to it. That was a long time ago, I wouldn't count on that being the case today. I worked with one guard that the faintest wiff and he would lock up like a fence post, at the same time one of the care and treatment workers would use his mace to liven up his ham sandwich. I can say I never maced an inmate, though I emptied a few cans. That was back when we worked at the super max, not the special management unit, inmates weren't clients, guards weren't correctional officers and there were no hug-a-thug programs. Guards didn't go running to personal for being harassed, no one cried about hazing (I was set on fire, stop your whining) respect and trust was earned not bestowed. Okay a few "discussions" took place after work, in the staff parking lot, where no cameras were present.

I worked 4 law enforcement jobs plus 24 years military. I have had a little CS, CN and Mace and others. But I could never work in a prison. Congrats to you guys who can do that.

Funny story. Long ago I came home from work to find my young bride wearing sexy nightgown, there was wine or champaign and candles lit, and she (my ex) was a looker by all measures. So, the evening looked good, very good.

She handed me a glass of wine or champaign and told me to sit on the couch. I had taken off my gear and she noticed a can of Mace I placed on the coffee table. So, she, standing there, like she was in a near shear outfit, asked, does it burn or hurt, and I said sure, not on your hand but it is murder on your eyes or face or if you breath it. (You see this coming, right??)

So, she sprays the tiniest amount in her palm and waits, then says, it does not do anything? Then she raises it to her nose and smells of it.........

That night did not end as planned... she was gagging and crying and so forth as we all know. The smallest amount inhaled brought her down. And nothing good happened that night..nothing at all.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

I used to carry a 5 shot revolver. My wife and I were out one night at the beach and noticed "groups" of 3 to 8 late teen to early 20's men on each corner. That was pretty much a deciding factor that 5 rounds isn't enough when you need them.

 

[Oldsalt66]

Today's assailants aren't armed with "Saturday Night Specials" anymore, they tend to run in packs, and the days when street gangsters run from the very sight of a gun are long gone.

I don't want to be outgunned by assailants who've armed themselves with top drawer semi automatic pistols, so I've relegated J Frames to back up service rather than primary carry.

 

[Legendarylawman]

Would you also retrieve the bullets? Inquiring people want to know!

Fingerprints on the shell casings... More recent, DNA... Going to toss the gun anyway, so bullets not so much...

 

[RebCop]

When I was freshly married and out of the Marines ; We lived in a lower area of town because that was what we could afford. After work being a Jar Head I would run a 7 mile course that took me around the local park. One night a car pulled up and 4 young men got out with tire tools and bats and demanded to know where the white boy was running. I had a cheap 5 shot Rossi .38 that I had bought for the wife in a small of the back holster. I had run 5 of the 7 miles and was tired. So I drew and kept the pistol to my side and thought one round a piece and one extra. They apparently decided that they no longer cared where the white boy was running and got in the car and left. I replaced the gun and finished the jog.

 

[RebCop]

And what is your point? In a struggle which is better, the semi auto, the wheel gun, or maybe some derringer type device? Anybody can get sucker punched, but we try to avoid that, any movement when it comes can save your bacon, and allow you to pivot or move into a better position for defense. Old people should not let strangers get that close, my opinion of course, others may differ.

Every cop will have those struggles if they work long enough, especially when they make arrests without backup. I recall 2 in remote areas where my struggle was to survive and I was blessed. Death was actually pretty close. And I recall a few arrests with other officers present where the bad guy struggled for the guns. Not fun.

That is why officers train to retain the gun and that is why we use retention holsters. Not required for old guys carrying guns to Walmart and back, but everyday old people get attacked and some do not survive. All we can do is hide from the risk and minimize the risk. I see no real difference in whether one carries a small wheel gun or a small semi auto. Whatever works for that person.

When I became prosecutor, I was usually assigned those jury trials where an officer fought with suspects. I volunteered for those cases, but it was actually a good plan. The reason is because, having been there, when the suspects attorney would wander off into those areas about the officer being abusive or maybe making the suspects actions seem lesser of an offense, it was easy for me to walk both the officer and the defendant through the steps that led up to the officer being attacked.

I would probe each of them as to their position as the contact unfolded, presenting word pictures to the jury. The officer would explain why he might face his gun side away from the suspect and how the suspect rapidly approached and made threatening gestures, shifted his weight and then made physical contact with the officer.

It is pretty simple after the fact to describe why an officer took action when a threat was unfolding. And that is how I see gun retention for us old guys carrying guns for protection. We move away from contact when we can, and when it is imminent, we should be at the least shifting our weight and making our body positioned to where the perp cannot get a good hold on our gun. Again, nobody enjoys being shot in the foot, and they will not be following you very fast when you move away.

It is all academic on the forums, but thinking about keeping that distances and moving off the X I believe is helpful, if that attack ever comes.

My 2 cents.

My 2 cents.

The post was not about any of what you said and to tell the truth I don't remember what it was about. I agree on weapon retention as I'm a retired cop also and had those same type confrontations. I see someone in Walmart with a pistol in a cheap assed nylon holster open carrying. I say anyone behind him has better access to the weapon than he does. Now that I'm retired all carry is concealed.

 

[Riposte1]

This is true. My son had to get pepper sprayed and tasered in training. He said the pepper spray was worse. Some people even vomited from it. Who told me one guy stood there like nothing was happening. It's weird.

I've been pepper sprayed more than once - it doesn't effect me for long enough to kill the guy that sprayed me (if that had been legal ) it did affect me after abou 30 seconds though.

In fact in one class where I was sprayed we had to shoot a target after being sprayed (it was an officer survival course).

Back when I was in the business, and wathced a lot of videos of actual encounters, it looked to me like a little more tha half the time it was effective - of course it depends on what brand of spray you are using - not sure myself but I hear Fox Labs makes strong stuff.

I'm not down on the idea of carrying it, but I would caution not to use it when someone is trying hard to kill you and has the means to do it!

Which is basically what I have been told by every instructor in every class I've taken.

Riposte

 

[Riposte1]

There is NO VERSUS...........Carry what you like and can use...........Scenarios NEVER happen the way you plan.

This should be written in stone! I like snubs just fine, but I also have beleived for half a century - never shoot a major caliber man with a minor caliber pistol (or rifle!).

Any time one gets into a potentially lethal encounter it is like rolling the dice - there are thousands of possible ways the encounter will play out - fortunately most of them end when the potential victim demonstrates he is armed and willing to defend himself - but still 1 in 100 may end up entirely differntly.

Just Ramblin'

Riposte

 

[Donn]

The OP inserts a lot of "what ifs," including Mr. Bad Guy knowing and employing a number of ways to disable a semi auto in a stress situation. Like others here, I'm retired, mind my business, and don't go anywhere I don't need to be. I have both revolvers and autos. I'm good with both, but better with an auto loader. Should the excrement ever get real, I want to be better, so an M&P Shield 45 goes out the door with me pretty much every day.

 

[Law-dog]

For the last 50 years or so I have carried no fewer than two handguns (often when I was active LE it was more) - just coincidence but right now I'm carrying both an auto (Combat Commander .45) and a revolver (S&W 10-5 3" in .38 spl - but I'm sticking around the house today - when I go to the big city, it might be two 1911s or a 1911 and a .44 Spl. revolver.

To each their own, I have no criticism of whatever each person carries.

Riposte

Actually, I do not understand you at all. You must live near a safe city. Why no long gun when going to town? LOL

Same here, always a pocket pistol and a bigger handgun in the console, at least a Glock 19. And if I am there after dark, there may be a third one.

And those city visits. There is very little car jacking risk in my semi rural area. But in the cities of 1 million of more it is pretty common. Something like your snub 44 special on or in the console works well, ready at an instant. Personally, I bought the SW Governor, just for that purpose. It launches 4 of those 000 buck each time, 71 grains each a little over 800 fps, about like four 32 acp rounds at once. Never presented it for such use but I have fired it a lot, I like it. Same with the Taurus Judge, a limited use gun, but just about perfect for that as an extra gun in the truck/car.

 

[Gun Relics]

I am probably the least experienced here, new to concealed carry.

I recently completed two days (16 hours) of CCW class in California with a lot of range tests and drills. I decided to test with a revolver because that's what I want to carry. I have a 2" smith 38+p Ti Lite, a very small, light hammerless that I want to pocket carry, but I tested with a S&W 19-2 4" for the sake of accuracy in the range test. If I qualify with a revolver, I can register any two revolvers I wish for the permit.

Out of 8 of us, I was the only revolver. There were M&P's, Glocks and Sigs. The "hot choice" semi auto here in CA is the Sig 365. There was a woman in the class with a purse holster and a Sig. She was one of the best shooters.

I wanted a CCW permit so I can occasionally carry or drive with a handgun when I feel it's necessary.

The point is, the trend is the CCW of choice are compact semi-autos, especially with the younger crowd. The compact, accurate, reliable semi's of today are excellent weapons. There is only a very small chance that a civilian will ever need to pull and use their concealed weapon. I prefer revolvers but I am in the minority, by a lot. If it came to that, I would rather have that 4" revolver than the 2" revolver, but lugging that thing around and trying to hide it - no thanks.