The Beretta M9

[Mister Coffee]

I understand.

My Gallatin has fired 1500 rounds so far trouble free. This afternoon I fired in a sandy creek as rapidly as possible and paid no attention to dropping magazines on the ground.

The gun fired 100%

View attachment 791182

Now that's a fine looking pistol. That looks like a 92 that a friend of mine had. It does not look like the 92 that I once rented at the range. One day, I'll figure out way's going on here.

 

[got2hav1]

M9A3 is my favorite. I don't have one at this time, but I do like them a lot and shoot them well.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

Now that's a fine looking pistol. That looks like a 92 that a friend of mine had. It does not look like the 92 that I once rented at the range. One day, I'll figure out way's going on here.

Thank you so much.

Some have claimed the Gallatin made Berettas are made by "drunk stupid hillbillies happily working for $8 an hour."

I've literally heard that on the various boards. Well, this example is far better made than some of other manufacture that I shall not name.

 

[roundels]

I had a 92F with the First Decade 1985-1995 graphics and the finish left a bit to be desired. I also had and still have a 92D Centurion and the finish is flawless. Some guns are luckier than others.

 

[Jim0001]

Here is mine:

View attachment 786258

Truly one of the most divisive military handguns of all time. Some call it an obsolete, unreliable boat anchor with a grip only fit for a giant, with a poorly positioned safety decocker and dubious stopping power.

Me?

I think it's a sweet shooter. Light recoil, decent sights, and when well maintained (unlike many military issued examples) and when using quality magazines (again, the military failed here) it's a dependable weapon.

What are your thoughts on the Beretta M9?

I was a fan of M1911A1's as a combat pistol and disappointed when the Army went to the Beretta M9 (92) in 1985. The M9 proved to be a reliable choice. It was easier for some smaller soldiers to handle. I found the M9 to be very accurate. I fired the Military Police 400 round course with it and managed a 399. I had a bet with my BN CDR, and it won me a free beer. I own the M9A3 and M9A1 that are pictured below, plus I own a 92FS, AM1951 (Italian Military issue), A model 81 Cheetah (Italian corrections issue0 and a model 70S.

 

[Marchboom]

"Never believe everything you read on the internet."

Abraham Lincoln, 1863

 

[bph9]

The Beretta cracked slides were from a steady diet of miss loaded M882 rounds that were at proof test pressure. The gun was not designed to handle that. The government went off on a premature tangent, bad mouthed the Beretta, cause them reputation loss, and many millions of dollars loss. The ammo issue was discovered and Beretta sued the US Government for defamation and won.

The incorrect story still continues to this day, almost 40 years later.

Actually the Beretta fiasco is far more complicated than most people are aware of.

The info I dug up which is referenced below along with my own study of the design of the M92 led me to the conclusion that Beretta was at fault and just because they won in court does not mean they were right either.

Faulty Weapon design, ammo usage, and faulty metallurgy all were part of this rather complex story.

The U.S. Military had stated they tested their ammo and "it was not" over spec. but when all was said and done the U,S. Military then "was forced" to "load down" below Nato Spec the future ammo being produced so they could "keep on" using the less than robust M92 pistol. The Military also demanded and got a redesign of not only the slide but also the frame which also was cracking.

The P38, from which the Beretta was designed was long known to have a weak slide design prone to cracking using ammo that was "not" over spec.

I dare say a gun like the Glock which has a massive slide would never have let loose like the Beretta slide did. And I have never been a big fan of Glock for a host of completely other reasons.

Below are 2 links and the Beretta story is far more complex than most people are aware of and "no" the conclusions by both sides still remain nebulous at best. But I give my nod to the U.S. Military's side of the story. Anyone even with a rudimentary mechanical knowledge when looking at the Beretta's original slide design would not have been surprised it did not hold up even if the metallurgy had not been suspect.

The True Story of the Beretta M9 Pistol

History of the adoption and woes of the Beretta M9 Pistol

sightm1911.com

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Beretta M9: 25 Years of Service

Prior to the adoption of the Beretta M9, a U.S. military contract truly did seem an impossible goal for a foreign company in 1978, the year Congress issued its directive to the Dept. of Defense instructing it to search for a new 9 mm handgun to replace the M1911A1.

www.americanrifleman.org

 

[Muley Gil]

Beretta came out with "sand cut" mags later on. During my son's first Iraq deployment; '06-'08 as a combat medic, I reached out to Beretta to get him a few more mags. The guy I spoke to was a former Marine, hooked me up at reduced prices sent a little care package to my son's APO. He never had an issue on those few times he used his pistol.

There are no "former Marines". We will be always be Marines, until the day we die.

 

[Cruzie27]

I currently have a m9 that I intend to keep as long as possible. After three deployments it just feels right having one around. It's like my hands remember the feel of the grip. Sure I have a pile of better or more modern 9 mike pistols. But only a few I like better. Mine only comes out to the range a few times a year, and that's ok.

 

[S&W Fan]

There are no "former Marines". We will be always be Marines, until the day we die.

Apologies, that's how he described himself.

Army family myself-father and son. The man who taught me to shoot 1911s a very long time ago was one of my father's best friends, a Marine Gunnery Sgt. He taught a 12yr old me to NEVER say "ex Marine".

 

[S-W4EVER]

I've always believed the failures the SEAL's had with the M9 occurred because they wanted the SIG P226. Most firearms will fail if you use them outside of their parameters.

 

[Equus]

Actually the Beretta fiasco is far more complicated than most people are aware of.

The info I dug up which is referenced below along with my own study of the design of the M92 led me to the conclusion that Beretta was at fault and just because they won in court does not mean they were right either.

Faulty Weapon design, ammo usage, and faulty metallurgy all were part of this rather complex story.

The U.S. Military had stated they tested their ammo and "it was not" over spec. but when all was said and done the U,S. Military then "was forced" to "load down" below Nato Spec the future ammo being produced so they could "keep on" using the less than robust M92 pistol. The Military also demanded and got a redesign of not only the slide but also the frame which also was cracking.

The P38, from which the Beretta was designed was long known to have a weak slide design prone to cracking using ammo that was "not" over spec.

I dare say a gun like the Glock which has a massive slide would never have let loose like the Beretta slide did. And I have never been a big fan of Glock for a host of completely other reasons.

Below are 2 links and the Beretta story is far more complex than most people are aware of and "no" the conclusions by both sides still remain nebulous at best. But I give my nod to the U.S. Military's side of the story. Anyone even with a rudimentary mechanical knowledge when looking at the Beretta's original slide design would not have been surprised it did not hold up even if the metallurgy had not been suspect.

The True Story of the Beretta M9 Pistol

History of the adoption and woes of the Beretta M9 Pistol

sightm1911.com

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Beretta M9: 25 Years of Service

Prior to the adoption of the Beretta M9, a U.S. military contract truly did seem an impossible goal for a foreign company in 1978, the year Congress issued its directive to the Dept. of Defense instructing it to search for a new 9 mm handgun to replace the M1911A1.

www.americanrifleman.org

This is almost laughable.

 

[VinnieL59]

Now that's a fine looking pistol. That looks like a 92 that a friend of mine had. It does not look like the 92 that I once rented at the range. One day, I'll figure out way's going on here.

In 1984 when our department authorized officers to carry the 92F, a dealer was contacted for a quantity price. We were told that they pistols would be Italian-made, however when we received them they had been made in Acckokeek, Maryland. They were not neautiful. In fact they were a bit rough. There were a few grind marks etc in them. They were duty weapons, probably equivalent those supplied to the U.S. Military. They still worked and many of them are still in use today. Later-on the department opened-up its weapon policy to permit other pistols. I wanted a .45. I fired a Glock, Beretta Cougar, and the Sig P220. I liked the Beretta but really wanted one in stainless so ordered the Sig. It was a big mistake as the frame on the Sig P220 in stainless was milled from a solid block of stainless. It was heavy as heck. It shot fantastic, but I could not wear it due to weight constantly pulling my duty belt and trousers down. Then I found that the Beretta Couger pistols were known for cracking. So I sold the Sig at a buddy's pawn shop and moved-on.

 

[bph9]

This is almost laughable.

And we have yet to see a dissertation from you on the history and development of this firearm. I will not hold my breath.

You might educate yourself by reading both of my "links" about the Beretta M92 and its problems.

 

[rockquarry]

And we have yet to see a dissertation from you on the history and development of this firearm. I will not hold my breath.

You might educate yourself by reading both of my "links" about the Beretta M92 and its problems.

I bought my Beretta thirty-five years ago and it's been a good one indeed, and after much firing. No complaints or weak points except for the 9mm chambering.

To lend some credence here, does your practical knowledge, background, and experience with the Beretta coincide with what's in the your referenced links?

 

[bph9]

I bought my Beretta thirty-five years ago and it's been a good one indeed, and after much firing. No complaints or weak points except for the 9mm chambering.

To lend some credence here, does your practical knowledge, background, and experience with the Beretta coincide with what's in the your referenced links?

In the first place your statement deriding the 9x19 shows you have done zero research as to its lethality. I can tell by your statement you like to beat the big bore drums. I have personally killed animals with the 9x19 and I killed a Whitetail Deer that before field dressing easily went about 185 lbs (I got over 160 lbs of meat off of it) it took only one shot to kill it. Handload was a 125 grain Remington hollow point Golden bullet (not bonded) shot out of a Glock 19 pistol and the barrel of a Glock 19 is only 4 inches long.

By the way I own two Beretta 92's an Italian one and an American one. I have no fear of them blowing up at all because I do not use hot loads nor have I put thousands of rounds through them either. The last check was about 2,500 rounds in each gun. I do check them for cracks on both the slide and the frame after shooting them. I have no doubt that with the price of ammo being in the stratosphere, even the components to handload using cheap cast bullets I will never put enough rounds through either Beretta to see a cracked frame or slide but again as the English say "Touch on Word".

What I am saying is that the design of the Beretta as well as the P38 (post war) is not the best design for slide longevity or frame longevity, especially a steady diet of full power factory loads. Most of my handloads are slightly below maximum level. And by the way the so called slide improvement on the Beretta may have helped but was no panacea for this design either.

The aluminum frame cracking on the Beretta was no surprise to me either. I find it rather interesting that this former problem is not discussed much. Beretta did make changes to the aluminum frame per the Army's request. How much this helped, if any, I have yet to discover.

Unless a firearm with an aluminum frame is well designed with the weakness of aluminum taken into consideration they often go south far sooner than steel frame pistols do. I have had a Colt Commander .45 acp frame break and a Mag 98 Polish Radom 9mm frame crack (ever heard of that pistol?). On the other hand pistols like the Sig 226 and Walther P5 have frame designs that hold up well even though they are made of aluminum. I have seen the aluminum frame rails of the Smith Model 39 break off with as little as 2,500 rounds of shooting factory ball ammo. There are others of course but I mentioned these to make my point.

 

[rockquarry]

If you got 160 pounds of meat off a 185 pound animal, you're the only one who has ever done that. Makes we wonder about the validity of your other comments.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

If you got 160 pounds of meat off a 185 pound animal, you're the only one who has ever done that. Makes we wonder about the validity of your other comments.

The guts n' bones weigh a lot more than 15 lbs.

 

[bph9]

If you got 160 pounds of meat off a 185 pound animal, you're the only one who has ever done that. Makes we wonder about the validity of your other comments.

Look it up. Generally you lose about 20% to 25% of the on the hoof weight. I also said the 185 pounds was an estimate.. And I was trying to remember all this from over 30 years ago. In reality the dressed weight was 160 lbs weighed in at the butcher. This I do remember distinctly. And you are correct I did not get 160 lbs of meat after butchering, it was actually about 80 lbs which included the spare ribs still on the bone.

And the Whitetail was not the only animal I have shot with the 9mm proving that the 9mm is lethal. But why bother to go on you will just try to find another excuse to say "I do not believe you", and I could not care less. I know what I did.

 

[poledorus]

At the risk of causing offense, I'll say this:

My Army military police company was one of the first conventional units to receive the new Beretta, in 1988. We all knew the potential for frame defects, and our armorer kept track of the number of rounds fired through each pistol.

We never experienced the slightest defect in our pistols over four years of routine training and foreign deployments. Perhaps this is because back then, the typical MP in peacetime fired around 50 rounds per year, and it would have taken us several careers to reach the point of catastrophic failure mentioned in the link.

Perhaps we were just fortunate. But In the three decades that followed, I never witnessed personally a catastrophic failure in an issued M9.

The greater controversy in the 1980s was from politicians, 1911 enthusiasts, and American gun manufacturers who turned blue at the thought of American soldiers using a foreign firearm -- especially an Italian one. And I was one of them.

And yet, I soon grew fond of the M9. It was sturdy, light, reliable and, above all, accurate. And I would still carry one today.