USNCPC M&P

WHEELGUNS

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Hello All,

My USNCPC M&P gets a few rounds shot through it yearly during the 2nd week of June to commemorate D-Day June 1945 and cleaned before goin back into storage. However after owning for nearly 30 years now and seeing as it is almost 70 years old and still in great shape I was wondering if perhaps its getting both too old and too valuable to shoot, even just once a year.

I have good photo's ( but don't see how to post them yet ) for the experts to evaluate and offer an idea as to how much of a collector's or shooter's piece she may be and what it may be worth at this point in time.

It is completely original 4 inch barrel unit with all matching numbers, British proofs and nice finish, overall it is in really good condition considering its age and the fact that it did see service use during WWII and was used as a duty gun back in New Jersey for over 30 years thereater.

Back in 1982 I corresponed with Roy Jinks and on S&W letter head he sent a two page response that was canned for "British Commonwealth" models with factory data on my piece in the last two paragraphs stating it was shipped 28th May 1941 to the Washington D.C. Navy Yard. In those paragraphs he also stated that U.S.N.C.P.C. stood for "United States Navy Coastal Patrol Corps., an organization which came into being on 20 March 1941 at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii", which contridicts what is stated about U.S.N.C.P.C. in print elsewhere that I have since read.

Thanks in advance for any commments, I will send photos here when I can figure out how or directly to anyone who requests them.

/s/ Steve
 
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I have never heard of the USNCPC so I have no idea if a gun shipped to them is worth more than other M&Ps made during WW II.

If it was shipped to a coastal patrol group in Hawaii why does it have British proof marks?

Is USNCPC for United States Navy Civilian Police Corps? Forum member Lee Barner posted a thread about having such a gun.

Here's what somebody else offered about these models.

"USNCPC marked: 3,000 handguns in the 748000-760000 serial number range; U.S. Naval Civilian Police Corps abbreviation on the backstrap, worth double to triple standard values. Most shipped in 1941."

Still not sure why this gun would have British proofs.
 
Hi Steve:

First, welcome to the Forum.

Second, back in 1982 neither Roy Jinks nor anyone else in the collecting community had any idea what the acronym USNCPC stood for. The factory records did not have this information so Roy can't really be faulted on that.

Author/researcher Charlie Pate, a member of the S&WCA, finally cracked the code about ten years ago and discovered in the National Archives that USNCPC meant the US Navy Civilian Police Corps, as mentioned by Saxonpig above. Charlie Pate has fully described these guns in his US Secondary Handguns book and in an article in Man at Arms magazine as well.

My collaborator LWCmdr45 and I have recorded quite a few of the USNCPC guns in the Pre-Victory and Victory Model Database. I would like to include your's as well on a confidential basis. Could you please post it here, or email it to me at [email protected], and remove the NOSPAM, of course.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
S&WCA #729
NRA Life
S&WHF Member
 
Yes, that is the same thing that I read since regarding the meanming USNCPC, I came across that last year in a G&A Surplus Firearms publication that had an article on Victory models that caught my eye on the news stand.

It is my assumption that it made it over to the UK as a Lend Lease piece before coming back to the states.

What is interesting is that as it was made for the Navy it is in .38 SPECIAL and so marked on the barrel by
S&W and then again by the British on the crane side as having passed proof testing, which using text
instead showing the photo I can best represent as:

.38 SPECIAL I* 150"

then under that:

BNP 4 TONS PER [] "

/s/ Steve

Originally posted by SaxonPig:
I have never heard of the USNCPC so I have no idea if a gun shipped to them is worth more than other M&Ps made during WW II.

If it was shipped to a coastal patrol group in Hawaii why does it have British proof marks?

Is USNCPC for United States Navy Civilian Police Corps? Forum member Lee Barner posted a thread about having such a gun.

Here's what somebody else offered about these models.

"USNCPC marked: 3,000 handguns in the 748000-760000 serial number range; U.S. Naval Civilian Police Corps abbreviation on the backstrap, worth double to triple standard values. Most shipped in 1941."

Still not sure why this gun would have British proofs.
 
Hi David,

Thanks for the welcome aboard.

I will get that setup and see about posting some photos.

This M&P is the oldest S&W revolver I own, next up is an M-29, M-15, M-28 and M-18 in order of age, which are all much younger than my 50 years.

Thanks.

/s/ Steve

Originally posted by DCWilson:
Welcome to the forum. To post pictures you will need an account with an image hosting service like Photobucket. It's really pretty simple. Here's a link the the how-to thread.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/e...0103904/m/3011047303

I have '30s era revolvers that I don't mind shooting at all. If you take care of them, they don't deteriorate.

David W.
 
Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the welcome.

Well that explains the issue with USNCPC in the letter from Roy.

I will be glad to provide you any details you would like to have. The serial number is 757287, its a 4 inch barreled .38 SPECIAL and commercial bright blue finish mentioned in the letter. I can scan the letter if you would like a copy?

/s/ Steve

Originally posted by ordnanceguy:
Hi Steve:

First, welcome to the Forum.

Second, back in 1982 neither Roy Jinks nor anyone else in the collecting community had any idea what the acronym USNCPC stood for. The factory records did not have this information so Roy can't really be faulted on that.

Author/researcher Charlie Pate, a member of the S&WCA, finally cracked the code about ten years ago and discovered in the National Archives that USNCPC meant the US Navy Civilian Police Corps, as mentioned by Saxonpig above. Charlie Pate has fully described these guns in his US Secondary Handguns book and in an article in Man at Arms magazine as well.

My collaborator LWCmdr45 and I have recorded quite a few of the USNCPC guns in the Pre-Victory and Victory Model Database. I would like to include your's as well on a confidential basis. Could you please post it here, or email it to me at [email protected], and remove the NOSPAM, of course.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
S&WCA #729
NRA Life
S&WHF Member
 
Hello All,

Let's see if some photos make it through to the forum now.

/s/ Steve

WHEELGUNS
 
Wheelgun:

Thanks very much for sharing the complete serial number on your very nice looking USNCPC pre-Victory. You might be interested to know that your revolver is the 70th USNCPC serial that we have recorded in the Database. A good chunk of them went to the British at some point. They remain very scarce today.

BTW, it appears that the markings on your revolver are British post-war commercial proof marks.

Congratulations on a fine revolver.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
 
i'll chime in with 752554 has the usncpc & british proofmarks stamped in it
 
Wheelman:

Thanks for posting your serial number for your USNCPC gun. It is the 71st example we have recorded in the Database. There were only a total of 3000 of these guns shipped in 1941 to the Navy, and we can assume that the attrition level for these pre-Pearl Harbor guns must have been pretty high.

Frank, I am including your pre-Victory in the Database as well. Thanks for the info.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
 
That early 1982 letter from Roy Jinks is probably worth as much as the gun! Some of Roy's early letters are priceless! I have one for a Victory model that says in the canned portion of the letter that 8,000 Victory Models were shipped to Austria! I'm still looking for one of the Austrian Victory Models! Also, letters on certain New Model No. 3s that were recorded in the shipping ledgers as being shipped to "Rev. Smith, or Rev. Jones, etc." Roy said were shipped to a bunch of "Pistol Packin' Bible Thumpers" until we figured out that Rev. stood for "Revenue Cutter" (This is not a knock at Roy, we are very old friends, but I still get a chuckle everytime I think about it.)
 
Hi Bob:

Thanks very much for your contribution of information to the pre-Victory and Victory Model Database.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
S&WCA #729
NRA Life
S&WHF Member
 
Referring to the Jinks letter regarding shipment of Victory Models to Austria I have had two Victory models with Austrian police markings. I will look and see if I can find the serial numbers in the dusty archives.
 
The Austrian shipped guns were for the Austrian police after the war was over. We shipped them because the police were carrying mostly 32 and even some 25 caliber semis that were considered not useful for police service. So we sent them Smiths, the police were not very grateful, they dumped the quality wheelguns ASAP and took up with any old semi auto they could find-they just were not used to revolvers. The person who initially decided that they needed new guns was alleged to have been General Patton, and given his gun interest just might have been true. The same situation happened with the German police after the war was over, they just could not abide revolvers and found any old semi auto to take the place of S&W revolvers.
 
Hi Bob:

Yes, we do have 752684 in the Database already. We have the numbers on 35 of the 36 guns that went to Bethlehem Steel. We must have missed one somewhere. Would you be able to send me a scan of the letter from Bethlehem Steel?

Thanks very much for the post and information. Every bit helps the Database.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
S&WCA #729
NRA Life
S&WHF Member
 
Gentlemen,

I just recieved a U.S.N.C.P.C. gun today. I would appreciate all thoughts & coments.

I found it listed as a M48-4 on AA #9164393.

All #s match. The finish is fading to patina but otherwise it seems to be in fine shape mechanically.

Jim
 
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