Hey guys!

In my journey to learn all about police revolvers I know this board has so many knowledgeable people, including lots of retired (and active) LEOs, many who have used revolvers on duty. I am wondering today about cartridge loops or cartridge slides:



Of course, these have been around since the 1800s, ever since cartridge revolvers have been invented. But from my reading, it seems that even well up into the 20th century, departments were still using these? I know the dump pouches and later on speedloaders became popular, but did cartridge loops continue in use by some agencies and if so, for how long?

Just curious about the history of these items. I know holster history is a massive topic on this board but curiously, it seems accouterments like these aren’t discussed all that often.

Thanks all, and especially thanks to those brave lawmen out there! Your service is GREATLY APPRECIATED.

-Jay

We used these 12 round loop loaders in the NMSP from 1935 to until we began converting to semi-autos in '89. Conversion wasn't complete until the early '90s. Boneheaded management did not allow revolver speedloaders because they didn't like how they looked on the uniform belt. Not kidding.

There were evidently some military slides as well. I have a black, US marked leather slide that holds 6, 38 Special cartridges. Back is marked DLA-10089MED45.

I started my LE career in 1984 and my department had dump pouches with speed strips and speed loaders; I progressed rapidly from the former to the latter. My dad, however, used the loops from the late 50s until ‘82 when he retired. Never asked him why he didn’t transition to speed loaders. He wouldn’t allow his department to carry autos because of all the “locker room” NDs. I agree they do look much cooler than speed loader pouches, but contrary to popular belief there was more to being a cop than looking cool. Eventually, ammo loops and revolvers in swivel holsters were only allowed to be worn for funerals or other formal occasions.

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My agency made no provision at all for reloading. Most of the agents carried the five or six cartridges in their small frame revolvers without spare ammo. Some agents acquired drop pouches intended for plainclothes use until we eventually transitioned to autoloaders in the late 80s.

I was issued a loop loader in 1986 on the Socorro County Sheriff's Department, but was issued speed loaders when I started with the Albuquerque Police department later that year. BTW, that's a 686 on my hip. It started my interest in S&W revolvers.

No oversize grips, dump pouches only, uniformity over all options. On midnights Tyler Ts and speed strips were popular until a ground swell of officers simply started to carry speed loaders and factory target grips. Management decided to move onto haircuts and moustaches, and don't get out of the car without your hat on!.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Cartridge loop belt slides were very common until about 1980 around here. Dump pouches with Bianchi SpeedStrips first started gaining market share about 1976 or so, and speed loaders came along shortly afterward.

Not everyone liked speed loaders. They are a little cumbersome on the duty belt, and even more so in plain clothes. I finally adopted speed loaders about 1984, but only for uniform duty. I continued to carry SpeedStrips or the 2X2X2 belt pouch for plain clothes use.

Now in retirement I still carry either the 2X2X2 or cartridge loop belt slide when carrying a revolver. Very compact and low profile, much more comfortable and concealable.

My department still issued the 12 round belt slide loops when I hired on in ‘77. I immediately replaced them with pouches and speed strips, followed shortly thereafter with speed loaders. Many of the older officers used the slide loops up until we transitioned to semi-autos in about ‘88. Come to think of it, I don’t think the autos became mandatory for quite some time after that. It probably just evolved as the old guys retired and nobody carried revolvers anymore.
Good shootin’
Doug

You don’t look old enough to shave, much less be a police officer.

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No school like the old school.

When I started in 1978, dump boxes were issue for full time officers though some carried loops as well. I had to buy my own dump boxes. I carried speed strips with them briefly.
I acquired speed loaders and quickly upgraded to Comp Loaders. I was told I could carry them if I qualified with them, dropping them on the range. I was successful (the white shirts expected a fail) and shortly they began appearing with other officers.
I bought my M645 from the Armorer (it was his class build at S&W) Jan 1989. He'd already had it approved for duty use and I was the second on our PD to go semiauto.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

I remember seeing Henrico County (Virginia) PD officers with cartridge loops as late as the mid-1970's. They transitioned to dump pouches and even speed loaders before ditching the revolvers in the 1980's.

Hired 1981, issued a heavy bbl model 10 and a swivel holster with 6 bullet loops along the top. A hot August night, called to a bar fight in a "low rent"area. Being a hot to make a name for myself rookie, I charged into the bar without backup. Realized that my holster felt a little light and saw that my Model 10 was AWOL. Went back to the car and there on the front seat sat my Model 10 On the front seat of my 1980 Ply Volaire with the window open as we had no A/C. Retrieved it, went back inside and handled the call. Next day, first thing, went to a LEO supply store and bought a Jordan style holster along with 2 speed loaders. Almost a very costly lesson learned, in more ways than one. Oh Yeah, no walkie talkie either. So much for the good ol days.

I carried a belt slide holding 12 rounds during the entire time I worked as an LEO in New Mexico, 3 years at first on a small town Police Dept and later as a NMSP officer. This all began in the mid 60's. The NMSP had adopted the cartridge slide immediately when they became available and they continued in use as a required uniform item until the Agency transitioned to semi-auto handguns( a great many years!). At that time, any of the older guys who wished to do so were allowed to continue to carry their issued revolvers (Model 19 with 4" barrels) until retirement. Most did that. The only modification I made to my cartridge slide was to have one custom made that had a strip of leather the same thickness as the leather that the loops were fashioned from sewn underneath those loops, thereby raising the cartridges off the front side of the slide. This set them just proud enough from the slide to allow two fingers to more easily catch the exposed bullets and raise them upward more easily to allow those two rounds to be captured between the thumb and those two fingers during the process of reloading. The idea came from an 18 round cartridge slide made for competition shooting during those days that was built in the same fashion. I'd have carried one of those if there was room on my duty belt if I could have gotten permission to do so. Did not happen. The basic uniform worn by NMSP Officers was exactly the same for a great many years and it was a hidebound tradition until sometime in the 80's when short sleeved shirt were allowed during summer months. Most of us old troops continued to wear our long sleeved shirts, albeit made from a poly-cotton material as opposed to the standard wool blend material of long standing use. Those were pretty warm in much of southern New Mexico during summer months, but they sure looked spiffy!

Since I learned to reload from a cartridge slide and got to be able to do that in a pretty speedy manner, and since the slide was required gear anyway, I never felt handicapped by it. I did own some HKS speed loaders which I sometimes carried in a coat pocket or close at hand in the vehicle. But my first rounds for reloading always came from the slide since I was "programmed to reload from it and I always had it on. These days, when carrying a revolver, I still use a six round cartridge slide constructed as above or a 2X2X2 cartridge carrier that has a flap over the rounds made by El Paso Saddlery that allows loading in the same fashion, two rounds at a time. Because of this long time experience, I am completely comfortable carrying my reloads in this fashion and reloading rounds two at a time. I still own speed loaders as well as some speed strips for back up ammo, but mainly because I'd rather have that back up ammo carried this way than just loose rounds in a box. But as in the old days, I also usually have a full box of ammo somewhere in my vehicles just in case I should ever need to reload my slides or other ammo carriers. That has seldom been a need for me, but I've got 'em, just in case. Better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them!

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So long ... Ken

I was 22 years old and already had 3.5 years in the active Army under my belt. Got out as a Special Forces qualified Sergeant. More experience than most my age.

Full Time LEO 1962-2007

1. Began with issue drop box (held 12 rounds), added a personnel 12 round cartridge loop slide-24 extra rounds on belt

2. 1968 replaced drop box with double speed loader pouch.

3. 1999 mandatory issue Sig-Sauer P-229 .40 with three magazines. (S&W J frame backup with two speed loaders.)

4. 2007 Compensatory Disability Retirement.

5. Retired. CCW-Revolvers

6. Private Security- Revolver with two speed loaders and a 12 round cartridge loop slide.

*** always a 12 round cartridge loop slide except 1999 to 2007

(Real Cops/Men carry Revolvers)

These are 3 of the options we had to carry extra ammo in 1966. Very crude by todays standards but it was all we had. I had 12 on my holster and another 12 in my drop pouch. I also had a full box of ammo in my vehicle.

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Ken

When speed loaders came to be the thing my dept required us to carry them, two Safariland loaders in a double holder. I continued to carry a 12 round loop also since I was still competing in PPC and with the constant practice could load from the loop faster than most officers could using the speed loaders! The loop also gave more flexibility when desired.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Dad had the loop slides from when I can remember, the '60s, until getting dump pouches, the 70's. When I got on, 84, there were still several with the loops; but most had 2 dump pouches. I was issued the speedloaders. We didn't go to magazine fed pistols until the 90's & then only the S&W 1086.

My son & I laugh because I started with 18 rounds total on me. I did carry a box of ammo & a couple more speed loaders in my patrol bag. But now my Glock 31 carries almost that many in 1 magazine. I just carry 2 extra mags on my belt. He wears 3. But he says those 18 rounds are why I carry no less than 3 guns on me when I'm working.

When i came on the job in 1989 I was in the last academy class that was issued a model 10 heavy bbl .38 spl. We were issued safariland speedloaders and safariland split 6 holders for the Sam Brown belt. The old grizzled Sergeant at the range advised that we could or should add at least a 6 round cartridge slide to the belt for those times we may fire less than 6 and need to top off. I did so in the academy and learned to load from it, drawing 2 cartridges at a time and loading 2 into the gun. I guess you can say that was a transitional use of the cowboy loops. I carried a combination of speedloaders, cowboy loops and loose shells in my pocket until we switched to autoloaders. As I trained with all 3 in the academy, I had, and still do, have a high level of confidence in their use. Our department did not mandate any particular style or manner of carrying extra ammo other than to specify we carry at least one fresh reload of 6 while on duty. Some old harness bulls carried western style cowboy rigs with 24 or more rounds in cowboy loops into the early 1990s. It was what they learned on and wouldn't change.
One amusing story....Early in my career an old timer showed up at roll call in 1990 or 1991 after being re-assigned to street duty from the office. He was wearing a buscadero rig with 36 rounds, his handcuffs tucked onto the belt with no case. A younger officer made a snide comment about the amount of ammo and aggressive appearance of his rig. The old timer took a long draw of his cigarette(you could smoke inside then) and calmly said, "I was in a shootout once before you were born and I ran out of ammo. I swore that would never happen again. I ordered this belt and holster the next day." Cant argue with that.

The first speed Loaders I had were "Dade". These had a large knob at the rear that you pushed forward to release all six cartridges.
The downside was if you dropped one, it would hit on the knob and all six cartridges' would fly away in six different directions.

Started in '77. Several old-timers still used belt loops, but we had the option of dump pouches with speed strips. That is what I used with my model 10 heavy barrel. We were eventually allowed to carry M25-2's with full moon clips. I really loved that combo!

Now retired, I most often can be found carrying my old M49 with a speedloader in
my pocket, and a 6-loop holder for topping off less than 5 rounds. Surprisingly, I still maintain memory from 40+ years ago..... shoot two, load two, repeat.

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Here is a Bucheimer Patrolman swivel holster with 12 cartridge loops at
the top, and an additional 12 cartridge slide. The revolver is my Model
67 Combat Masterpiece.

PS The belt is by Bianchi.

By the way, a little bit of history:
Go up to the SEARCH function, type in: Jim Cirillo's holster

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In Omnia Paratus

Here’s a pretty picture with no real world application-mainly I want to thank all you LEO’s for your service, I have particular reason to be grateful for what you all do every day of your working lives.
Respectfully
turnerriver

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turnerriver

We were issued swivel holsters that had 12 round loops as part of the rig and we were trained to load two at a time from the loops. When those holsters began to break at the swivel we were issued a border patrol style holster w/dump pouches. Speedloaders were never officially approved although many of us carried them in our pockets.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

When I joined OSHP in 1980 we were issued a Jordan Border Patrol type holster for our HB M10 and a custom made, covered 6 loop rig that had the handcuff pouch attached at the bottom. We didn't get speed loaders until we traded in our M10's for our new M681's. We were issued a security holster that was referred to as a piece of Samsonite luggage because it was so big and bulky. Again we were issued a custom made 2 speedloader pouch that was attached to the handcuff pouch below. Until sometime around the late 1970's, I believe, everyone had to carry and shoot right handed, no lefties allowed, so everyone was uniformly outfitted. All equipment was issued and no personal items allowed on the gun belt. Second weapons were permitted but not encouraged. I took a lot of ribbing from the old Troops because I carried a second weapon from the first day I was permitted. Usually referred to as "Tackleberry" from the old "Police Academy" movies.

We had to use them when I joined the Border Patrol in 1982, you could have 6 or 12 round, didn't matter as long as it had brass snaps on the bottom. Lots of us carried zip strips in our pockets for extra rounds. Speed loaders weren't allowed, when asked why, we were told that if we threw ammo to our partners, we wouldn't lose all six. Oh, ok, makes no sense. Learned to load two at a time from the loops, old school, but the BP had some true pistoleros.

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I always figured if that other officer had shot all of his ammo and we were still shooting, he wasn't going to get MY ammo to waste.

I started in LE in 1976, but due to changing departments, didn't go to the police academy until 1979. It was revolvers only and only loops or drop boxes were allowed, no speed loaders. Uniform and handgun selection was kinda lax at my PD. Leather had to be black and either plain or basketweave, though a saw a few officers who had mixed gear. Caliber selection was .38, 9mm or larger. There were swivel holsters, Jordan holsters, high ride holsters and security holsters. Some had straps that went over the top of the handgun and others had thumbsnaps. Several officers carried the swivel holsters that eventually broke.

The S&W Model 59 was popular in the '70s. When I carried a semi auto, it was a 1911 pattern, carried cocked and locked. One officer had a WW I 1911 and there were several pre WW II revolvers out there as well.

When I retired in 2001, there were officers carrying pre Model 10s with bullet loops, lots of Glocks in .40 S&W, 9mm and .45 ACP and everything in-between.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

When I joined HPD in 1972, I was issued a really cheap flap holster that can best be described as made of chicken hide. As I recall, we had to purchase our own cartridge belt slides and most of us purchased a 12 round loop slide, mine was from Don Hume. Things did improve later, however progress was very slow.

I have enjoyed this thread a lot.

Me too! Thanks to all who serve and are serving!!

Nice collection of USBP leather. I especially like the old Patrol Inspector badge! The USBP used loops until transitioning to speed loaders in the early 80's. Some agents carried speed loaders and 6 round loops for partial reloads, special rounds (snake), etc. The USBP transitioned to semi-autos in the late 80's (Beretta 96D). Below photo from 1986.

Very nice! I like that digital watch as well. Is that a Casio?

Maybe. I can't remember what I had for breakfast any more! I lost and broke a few watches on duty back in the day, so it probably wasn't expensive.

I agree on the broken watches. For a while, I bought $1 wrist watches from Wal-Mart. I also wore Casios. Now, I'm wearing a Timex Expedition.

I also kept a few cheap ink pens at work. I have given away some pens because the person who signed the report was, well, maybe not as clean as I was.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Guys I bought a Tex Shoemaker 12 round cartridge slide off ebay. I like it! But how tight are the loops supposed to be? They’re pretty stiff right now. Hard to get the cartridges out.

They loosen up with use. If they are loose in the beginning, they'll stretch out where ammo won't stay. Some pistoleros would also shave the bottom off each loop, at an angle, at the bottom to make retrieving the individual rounds easier.

I came on the department in ‘78. We had to purchase our own leather out of our uniform allowance. An older officer whom I admired wore loops so that’s what I bought. Safariland gear except for a Smith & Wesson T-break holster. Still have the 125g JHP’s I carried in those loops. Most of the older officers wore dump pouches. Never saw a speed loader until the early ‘80’s.

I came on in 71-72. Used dump pouches. When I went to Athens PD, in 77, started off with dumps, then we got a supply officer who was more into shooting and started wearing speed loaders. I don't think we were issued them initially, it was on you. We had ordinary strap holsters, later issued high-quality front break high retention holsters, which took some training, but were good leather. Had to push the butt forward to release the holster.

Georgia State Patrol when they carried .357s carried six rounds that were hardened on belt loops. They were supposed to be able to shoot through a car block and disable a vehicle. They were brass-cased and the trooper was supposed to keep them shined. I can't remember an incident ever when a trooper disabled a vehicle by shooting through the engine block, but I suppose it happened. They carried .357 HPs in their guns, though.

Started in 1970 (full time in 1972) and we had to use dump pouches, while neighboring agencies used those or belt loops. Seemed people were more coordinated that was I and could load fast. I always knew that I was “slow” (in more ways than one) so I carried several firearms. First gun-fight in 1973 I emptied the first and went to the second. My Dept. didn’t allow speed-loaders until about 1975-1976 as I remember. Those were faster, but I still always had more than one gun.

As a youngster I helped another Officer with removing a uncooperative drunk for a restaurant. After we drugged him out, handcuffed and in the car I noticed one of my dump boxes was opened spilling all six rounds on the floor of the restaurant.

I shortly thereafter brought a loop slide and later on speed loaders

When I worked patrol as a Deputy Sheriff we had to put down a lot of animals that were hit and injured on the highway, such as elk, moose and deer. I carried a Model 29 4" with the Remington 240 FN lead round at 1K in velocity. I wore a 1 3/4" Ranger Belt by Bianchi and a Model 5 holster also by Bianchi. I carried a six loop slide in 44 and one speedloader for 44 N frame and two pair of Smith and Wesson cuffs. Black Basketweave with chrome buckle and hardware.

That’s awesome! How might one go about that? A razor blade?

No kidding. But then a lot of LEOs look like they are too young to drive these days - or at least they do to me.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

When I came on in 1978 I used dump pouches with speed strips inside. I was informed by old hands that loose rounds in the pouches could be a hazard in a bar fight. They were right. Most of them stayed with loops, but I never did. In 81 I moved to a department that required use of a pair of Safariland speed loaders. I never could get two at a time that worked reliably. Must have been a bad batch sent to the local police supply house. I used them for qualification but carried speed strips in my shirt pocket and HKS speed loaders in my jacket pockets.

In plainclothes I used a Bianchi belt pouch that held 6 rounds on a speed strip and usually another strip in my sport coat pocket.

Interestingly the course of fire for qualification changed with the reloading method. At the first department we fired 2, loaded 2 and fired 6, reloaded and fired 6 at the 7 yard line. The second outfit had us fire 2, reholster, draw and fire 4, reload and fire 6. I always considered topping off the cylinder to be a good skill to have and speed strips took up less space than loaders.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Great thread, very informative.

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Only a cold warrior

This might work pretty handily. I'd recommend something to protect the leather below the loops when the cuts are made downward.

What a fun thread. I really enjoyed being reminded of the revolver days. Mine was a 4 inch 686 in a Bianchi hurricane holster with two HKS speed loaders. We worked the field with 18 rounds of ammo (38 Special +P 125gr Silvertips). lol

In 1972, we started with belt loops. By 1974, I was using Date speed loaders and later changed to HKS.

I recently snagged this Bauer Brothers pouch for $5 at a pawn shop. Looks unused. I've been using it for woods walking.

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