Pancake Holster Wrestling Match

Luna3 · Jun 22, 2020

Disclaimer - Holster idiot at work.

Some time ago I shopped around for a cc holster for my commander 1911. I spent hours reading up on styles and materials, pros and cons, and holster makers.

After much hand wringing, I settled on a recognized name belt and pancake made of leather. Very well made and great service.

For the life of me, I can not make this holster work. I put on the belt, get around to the right hand side, put on the holster..thread through the belt loop, cinch things up. Now it's a struggle to get the pistol into the holster...it's impossible.

I tried holstering the firearm first before cinching up, practicing empty of course. Even then, if I draw the pistol there's no way it can be reholster without undoing the belt.

One thing I did learn is that the holster has too much cant for me. So I goofed and the holster sits in the closet. Now I'm back to drawing board. Any thoughts from folks who use a pancake style holster? This can't be rocket science,or is it?

Murdock · Jun 22, 2020

Nope, it's not rocket science, but your experience is typical for most of us. I guarantee that the majority of those who answer this post will confess to having a shelf, box, bin or bag full of holsters they just don't use. So don't beat yourself up.

You are threading the belt behind the holster, aren't you? (Sorry, had to ask). At a guess I suspect that your holster is not stiff enough; it should not collapse to the point that one-handed insertion of the gun back into the leather is a chore. The workanship may be fine, but the basic material used in construction makes a difference.

Is your belt soft and flexible? It too needs to be faifly stiff. If it's too soft and you are "cinching it up" as you say it may be bending the holster against your body too much, causing it to collapse a bit.

You have found that you don't like the tilt angle. So you have learned something. Go forth with new experience. There used to be pancakes with multipe belt loops to modify tilt.

Every once in a while I find a good quality holster in the used bin in a gun shop or at a gun show for real cheap. Like $10 or even less. Carry gear gets chucked aside when a used gun is turned in, and much of the time the staff at the gun shop either doesn't know or care about its value. Always worth a look, and lets you try different carry gear without dipping into the rent money. Found a used Milt Sparks Versa Max II in black that way. Didn't need it, but now I have a black one to match the brown one.

I carry 19ll's in three sizes, and almost always IWB. It can be quite comfortable and secure. When carrying OWB the Milt Sparks 55BN does very well for me, and allows easy one-hand re-insertion. Very stiff leather. Worth the wait from Idaho. Not cheap unless you can find a used one with low dollars on it.

Don't go cheap on either the holster or your belt.

ContinentalOp · Jun 22, 2020

There are holsters with reinforced mouths that will stay open after the gun is drawn.

Arm · Jun 22, 2020

This is one that I use, well made and, holds it's shape. Cant has two options. Cardini.

ContinentalOp · Jun 22, 2020

Arm said:
This is one that I use, well made and, holds it's shape. Cant has two options. Cardini.

That reminds me...

There are basically two types of pancake holsters. One type is where the inside and outside pieces of leather are symmetrical around the gun's centerline. The other is asymmetrical, where body-side of the holster is relatively flat and the outside portion is molded around the gun, like the one Arm posted (well, that's what it looks like from the picture). The symmetrical version may be more prone to collapsing if it's not reinforced, so that may be a consideration.

M29since14 · Jun 22, 2020

I used to carry my Commander in a plain, old Don Hume JIT Slide. It is an inexpensive holster but it works perfectly for me. I like it better than a Yaqui slide and it doesn’t have the bulk and weight of a pancake design, which I’ve never cared for.

I’ve never been too concerned about a little difficulty when re-holstering. You’ve got all the time in the world to do that right. Getting the gun out of the holster reasonably fast and smooth is what interests me - and comfort. The JIT Slide works well. I have three of them, which I use for different guns, and I need to order another one (for my P320/M17, whenever they start making them for that gun).

The only complaint I have is that they’ve changed their finish and it has a bit of a reddish hint to it. Their original brown/tan suited me better, but I am OK with either one, I guess. They make them in black too, if you prefer black.

ContinentalOp · Jun 22, 2020

M29since14 said:
I’ve never been too concerned about a little difficulty when re-holstering. You’ve got all the time in the world to do that right.

I won't use a belt holster that collapses, and it has nothing to do with speed reholstering. It makes reholstering safer because you're not trying to wedge the muzzle in the holster mouth, which could cause you to point the muzzle at your own body, or stick your fingers in the holster mouth to hold it open while inserting the gun, pointing the muzzle at your fingers.

And if you do need to fire in self defense, it's a good idea to reholster before the police arrive, presuming you're not in immediate danger. You may have shaky hands after such an encounter, which could make reholstering in a collapsed holster less safe.

It also helps make practice easier.

Just my opinion.

dirty & hairy · Jun 22, 2020

My holster drawer is large and it is getting full. I am expecting a new holster in the mail (any day now!), and I already know what the next one is going to be. I use most of them, but some are just mistakes that for whatever reason just don't work for me. It happens. You cannot know until you try.

If you are after something that can be concealed and is comfortable, a pancake style holster is tough to beat. Sometimes they just take a while to break in. The tabs with the belt slots need to form/stretch to fit you. The only way this happens it to wear it. After a while re-holstering gets easier.

Some makers, Kramer for example, are very stiff and come with the tabs just about pre-stretched and ready to go. Others, Mitch Rosen for example, come with a note to make sure you don't wear the holster empty at first or the leather will stretch where you don't want it to, making re-holstering impossible. Two very good makers with different pancake break in requirements. They are all different.

In my experience, the Kramer (horsehide) is the only pancake style (I think they call them scabbards) that I could re-holster easily right out of the bag. The others take a while.

Luna3 · Jun 22, 2020

Thanks for all the replies so early in the day. Concealed means exactly that, and I take it seriously...supposedly a plus with pancakes.

My holster is symetrical, as it is said. And, as mentioned, the leather might be too thin, and as spoke of, it is not reinforced at the mouth. The belt is double thick and very stiff, so that's not part of my issue.

When I first considered a holster for my 1911, I was drawn (see what I did there!) to the cross draw style. Perhaps that would be more suited to my body shape...short torso, thick waist. I paid good money too, although no complaints about the belt. Oh, and I did thread the belt loop of the pants. Everything is certainly tight to the body, so much so that making any kind of adjustment without undoing the belt is just too much of a pain. I've worn this setup around the house a lot expecting it to eventually "break in." Beware conventional wisdom.

Mainsail · Jun 22, 2020

Luna3 said:
Oh, and I did thread the belt loop of the pants.

I pulled this line out because it doesn't make any sense.

My primary concealed carry is 90% or more a pancake holster, either strong-side or cross draw, so I really don't understand why you're having so many problems.

Answering a few questions will help immensely:
- Can you post a picture?
- What brand; what model?
- Already asked, but are you threading the belt around the back of the holster?

Rodan · Jun 22, 2020

Lots of good points in the thread, but here's a couple things I haven't seen mentioned:

Pancake holsters with significant cant are designed to be worn behind the hip (~4:00 o'clock), FBI style. I see a lot of folks try to wear these on the point of the hip (3:00 o'clock) and it makes for an uncomfortable wrist angle, which makes a smooth draw difficult.

I prefer a straight draw (Askins Avenger style) worn on the point of the hip or a little forward, but it's a little harder to conceal, especially in warmer weather.

For a defensive carry holster, being able to re-holster one handed is an absolute must. You never know when the gun might need to go back in the holster immediately, and the off hand might be busy...

Holsters are a lot like shoes... trying them on in the store doesn't tell you whether they're really going to be perfect... I just took an 18x18x18 box of old holsters to the storage unit, and I have another large plastic bin of holsters in the closet, and a shelf of regularly used holsters in the safe... the quest for the perfect holster is a lifelong pursuit... and, of course, you need one for each gun...

CA Escapee · Jun 22, 2020

Here’s a photo of a couple of pancake holsters. The one with the parkerized 1911 in it is a Bianchi Remedy, Model 57. The stainless 1911 is in a Don Hume 721OT.

The Don Hume works well for me, so I brought it to the store to compare with the Bianchi. So far, so good, I thought. The construction of the two show what ContinentalOP mentioned above. As it turns out, the Bianchi has slightly more cant. Like Rodan said, it has to be worn farther back for me to get a straight wrist. Only when I do, I find I have to rotate the pistol outward To draw because it’s almost behind me on the belt. So the pistol is locked in the holster. Great retention, but it makes for a very awkward draw due to the length of my arms.

No problem re-holstering with the Don Hume either.

The Bianchi is a nice holster, but doesn’t work for me, so it lives in the holster bin.

NYlakesider · Jun 22, 2020

Guilty as charged for having a box of holsters that I have accumulated over the years.

Way back when I lived too close to the city so I was carrying a full size 1911 .45. I bought one of the original Roy Baker Panacakes in black. Man was it ugly but I liked how it carried the big Colt.

Have not used that holster in decades now, but racking my head I do not remember any re holstering issues. I did plenty of practice including speed draws from holster and as stated above if I had a problem its long been forgotten.

Old cop · Jun 22, 2020

I got a holster similar to what you describe from Falco Leather for my M&P 2.0 Compact. Excellent quality, good service @ about $70. Delivery time was a little over 10 days.

ISCS Yoda · Jun 22, 2020

Guilty as charged for having a box of holsters that I have accumulated over the years.

Oh, yeah, and I am at the point where I am going to have to determine which holsters fit which handguns because I let it get away from me! At least I know which ones go with my EDC handguns!

Borderboss · Jun 22, 2020

I carry my 1911 in an old Original Uncle Roy's Pancake holster and have not had the problem the OP is describing. See below.

That said, it takes some concerted breaking in to get a leather holster broken in and usable. I usually put the empty gun in it and then twist it back and forth to get the leather to stretch a bit. A bit of that usually takes care of things.

Moo Moo · Jun 22, 2020

I'm having similar issues with a Safariland Holster for my Model 36. I have tried putting the gun in a plastic bag and leaving it stored in the holster for about a month. Didn't make any difference. I'm not sure what else I can do to stretch it out given the material it's made from.

bronco45 · Jun 22, 2020

As we get older our need for keeping a firearm secured in the proper location on a belt becomes an unwelcome reality. I cannot wear "pancake"type holsters anymore as I have to pull the belt so tight because I don't have a backside to help keep the pants up. I've been wearing pancake rigs since 73, but not anymore can;t get a gun in or out of one. I now use an Avenger style holster on revolvers and autos. They ride high, keep the butt of the weapon pulled into the side and easy to draw and reholster. Avenger style is my answer.

ContinentalOp · Jun 22, 2020

I like the Avenger-style holsters, though I've personally never tried one. At some point I'd like to get one, the Kramer Vertical Scabbard (with optional FBI tilt) is really appealing to me.

But for me, IWB just works so well and is my preferred method of carry, so it's not a high priority for me.

It would be nice to have an OWB holster handy in case I end up taking a course from one of the schools/instructors that don't allow IWB holsters (yes, they are out there...and I'm not talking about specifically prohibiting AIWB, but even strong-side IWB).

.357magger · Jun 23, 2020

Question for the OP.

Are you running your belt, which needs to be wide and stiff, back under a belt loop before threading through the final holster loop? That will anchor the holster in place.

A second thought is does your pancake have two slots or three? Three slots, for me, are one of the most versatile types as it allows change in cant. Particularly the third slot allows usually an almost straight up and down cant rather than the "FBI rake" of most two slot holsters.

Just a couple of thoughts. But as others have noted, the search for the "perfect " holster often results in a box, large or small, of also rans. The Classified section here is a good source for either acquiring new to you options or sharing your not right for you options to others.

Pancake Holster Wrestling Match

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