PPK/S OWB And Shoulder Rig Considerations?

Duckford · Jan 21, 2023

I've been mulling what kind of holster or holsters I want for conceal carry considerations. I carry very large weapons for the most part because I wear suits and jackets all year round, but do want to take advantage of the PPK/S I have on order when it comes, and so i can sans suit/jacket without an issue.

I've been using a Gazelle shoulder rig for 1911 and have liked it, but is there a better choice for shoulder rig with a tight fitting coat?

As for OWB, I was thinking perhaps a Sneaky Pete, as it is something that requires no covering, and the PPk is small enough to try to pull off effectively. Is conceal and draw that bad? I think the quality seems to be good from what others have let on. But any other factors or suggestions would be helpful.

Any other suggestions? I don't wear shirts on the outside, no interest in IWB, and is there any other real alternative for "conceal open carry"? Any good pocket holsters that work effectively and draw well enough?

I also should ask about any old fashioned service holsters for OWB with suit or coat. Any good ones, or I suppose PP or PPK will not fit the PPK/s properly?

ColbyBruce · Jan 21, 2023

I carried PPK/PPKs pistols for years… years ago. I used a Bianchi X15 shoulder holster, Don Hume JIT belt slide, and a Galco Small of the Back holster. My son still has the X15 and I have the JIT. Those suited me then and I am still a fan of the JIT.

URIT · Jan 22, 2023

I use a Don Hume Yaqui Slide for my Walther PPS, which is about the same size as your PPK/S. Hume has several models worth considering.

TT Gun Leather has several OWB options with fine leather work.

Craft Holsters, which is a group of Euro manufacturers, has a lot of options for the PPK/S.

I have a Craft Holster made for a Smith pistol. It took about 7 weeks to get to me from an Eastern Europe holster maker. It's a well made holster.

BB57 · Jan 22, 2023

I used to carry a PPK/S in a Galco Executive and it worked great.

I’m not sure why you have no interest in IWB. It’s perfect for the PPK/S.

Duckford · Jan 22, 2023

BB57 said:
I used to carry a PPK/S in a Galco Executive and it worked great.

I’m not sure why you have no interest in IWB. It’s perfect for the PPK/S.

I always wear shirts tucked in, never thought the IWB had very good draw, and think that carrying on the inside of a belt must be incredibly uncomfortable. Just never thought they would work well for me personally.

BAM-BAM · Jan 22, 2023

Had a PPK since 1985/86..... 99% of the time a Milt Sparks Summer Special,

Do have a IIRC Bianchi horizontal Shoulder holster (soft leather and thumb snap) with a single off side mag pouch. For the other 1%

URIT · Jan 22, 2023

A multi-purpose pocket option would be one of the holsters with a sticky fabric for pocket carry. There are numerous vendors, e.g., Remora, DeSantis, Clinger, Sticky... Most have videos.

I carried OWB for more than 40 years, but a move to Arizona forced me to opt for IWB if I wanted to conceal.

I bought a Remora holster/mag holder combo and experimented with pocket and different waistline positions eventually settling for one just in front of my strong side hip bone.

This type holster makes it easy to shift from strong to weak side when driving or to pocket carry without raising red flags from the anti-gun crowd.

I still use the mag holder in my pocket, but bought a leather single clip holster for EDC once I was sold on IWB carry.

Just what you needed... more options. Good luck!

CajunBass · Jan 23, 2023

Duckford said:
I always wear shirts tucked in, never thought the IWB had very good draw, and think that carrying on the inside of a belt must be incredibly uncomfortable. Just never thought they would work well for me personally.

I'm one who always thought that myself, untill I tried one. Now it's the only way I carry, and I'm carrying a 1911 commander.

For the PPK/S I use a Bianchi 100. Old school holster, for an old school gun.

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BB57 · Jan 27, 2023

Duckford said:
I always wear shirts tucked in, never thought the IWB had very good draw, and think that carrying on the inside of a belt must be incredibly uncomfortable. Just never thought they would work well for me personally.

Wild Bills Concealment, among others, make tuckable IWB holsters like this one and it keeps a PPK/S sized pistol well concealed under a dress shirt.

Comfort has never been an issue for me, with a number of handguns. The S&W PPK/S with that stupid long tang is an possible exception as it can start digging into your side depending on where you carry it on your waist and how skinny you are. But even then you can order the holster with a “flab tab” to put leather between you and the end of the tang.

OWB also has potential comfort related issues. If the holster does not hold it snug enough against you it moves, feels insecure and the muzzle can press against you. If the holster is too snug against you it can still be uncomfortable.

Comfort really comes down to holster quality and good double stitched double thickness belt designed for concealed carry.

—-

Plus if you are a tucked shirt guy with an OWB holster you will always be wearing a cover garment and one long enough to cover the pistol when you bend over, bend to the opposite side, or reach up over your head.

That limits your choice of cover garments, or limits your movement. And in warm weather you’ll be that guy unseasonably dressed which just screams “I’m carrying a gun”.

Duckford · Jan 27, 2023

I mentioned the Sneaky Pete for coatless carry.

I take it the omissions are a sign of disapproval?

CajunBass · Jan 28, 2023

Not from me. I've thought about them, but just never have gotten one. Seems like a workable idea anyway.

chief38 · Jan 28, 2023

Years ago I had a few shoulder holster rigs for both my Dick Spl. and my Chief's Spl. After using them maybe a few dozen times, I never did again.
In fact I recently sold them here on this Forum.

I find them uncomfortable and they obviously require a covering garment of some type that can not be removed regardless of the weather conditions and temperatures.

I suppose that some guys who do wear suits or jackets every day and can get used to the tugging around their necks can justify it - just not my style.

Duckford · Jan 28, 2023

chief38 said:
Years ago I had a few shoulder holster rigs for both my Dick Spl. and my Chief's Spl. After using them maybe a few dozen times, I never did again.
In fact I recently sold them here on this Forum.

I find them uncomfortable and they obviously require a covering garment of some type that can not be removed regardless of the weather conditions and temperatures.

I suppose that some guys who do wear suits or jackets every day and can get used to the tugging around their necks can justify it - just not my style.

My second carry option is my 1911 in a shoulder rig. With the magazine pouches on the other side, it can balance out nicely. Never bothered me to carry a full size auto loader in one, so I think a PPK/s would be an easy task.

BAM-BAM · Jan 28, 2023

As I said above I've got one and it carries easy but a shoulder rig is a lot of leather for a PPK..shoulder rigs are great in the movies and TV; Bond, Miami Vice and Rust... but ... even Bond has gone to an IWB in the last 10 years!!!

I've got two Miami Vice style rigs; single stack for a Sig 220/245, Smith 4566 and Beretta 92 Type M single stack compact; and one for double stack 92 Centurion and Compacts.......mostly winter in Penn's Woods or dog walking under a heavy jacket. But even those are second fiddle behind a cross-draw on the belt. Kirkpatrick TCD..... unzip and draw... no thumb snap!

Don't see them as great for civilian deep concealment..... plain clothes and Detectives ya; easy on and off .... sitting and in vehicle access.

rednichols · Jan 28, 2023

BAM-BAM said:
As I said above I've got one and it carries easy but a shoulder rig is a lot of leather for a PPK..shoulder rigs are great in the movies and TV; Bond, Miami Vice and Rust... but ... even Bond has gone to an IWB in the last 10 years!!!

I've got two Miami Vice style rigs; single stack for a Sig 220/245, Smith 4566 and Beretta 92 Type M single stack compact; and one for double stack 92 Centurion and Compacts.......mostly winter in Penn's Woods or dog walking under a heavy jacket. But even those are second fiddle behind a cross-draw on the belt. Kirkpatrick TCD..... unzip and draw... no thumb snap!

Don't see them as great for civilian deep concealment..... plain clothes and Detectives ya; easy on and off .... sitting and in vehicle access.

Then it will surprise you to learn that Ian Fleming, the Bond author, changed Bond's holster to a Berns-Martin IWB from the Berns-Martin shoulder holster, in the next book after Dr. No that was Goldfinger (the films are not in the books' order); because of the flack he got after the film version of Dr. No. In the Dr. No book the Berns-Martin was paired with the Centennial revolver as recommended by Boothroyd but he also paired the holster with the PPK because, he told Boothroyd, he wanted Bond to have a silenced pistol but the Centennial, he knew from his time at Naval Intelligence, couldn't be.

Bond, despite being a fictional character, is a superb example of how an underarm shoulder holster of any configuration is only ideal for small, light pistols like his PPK and his fictional Beretta (Fleming hadn't even known what it was called when he wrote the first draft of Casino Royale; his exemplar was his father's FN .25 of WW1 which Fleming carried through WW2).

In the Playboy interview of '64 Fleming was quizzed on why he hadn't switched Bond to Chic Gaylord's horizontal shoulder holster, a concept that Gaylord had invented for NASA and the returning astronauts to protect them from kidnaping by the Russians after splashdown. Fleming was incensed and the interviewer dropped the subject. And to a point he was right: it was all fiction no matter what pistols were involved.

The posterboy of why we don't try to carry big revolvers under the arm, this one being a Clark shoulder holster on an LAPD detective in the 1930s. I think the image has been 'flopped'; that is, the detective is not left handed:

Duckford · Jan 28, 2023

I always found shoulder rigs to be the most comfortable, they also have the best draw for a concealed gun in most situations. Carjacking isn't impossible, and the shoulder rig cross draw is one of the best for defending yourself in a car, or even sitting down.

I've gotten a lot of good suggestions in this thread to think about. Still not sold on IWB, and tucked shirts and jackets are my style regardless of carry choice. I'll be thinking it over the next few days before anything.

rednichols · Jan 29, 2023

Duckford said:
I always found shoulder rigs to be the most comfortable, they also have the best draw for a concealed gun in most situations. Carjacking isn't impossible, and the shoulder rig cross draw is one of the best for defending yourself in a car, or even sitting down.

I've gotten a lot of good suggestions in this thread to think about. Still not sold on IWB, and tucked shirts and jackets are my style regardless of carry choice. I'll be thinking it over the next few days before anything.

That all seems so logical, yet I'd fancy my chances over here with a RHD car vs a LHD as over there where you are. No less than undercover drug agent Bruce Nelson killed an attacker in his back seat by drawing from IWB (according to his account). Here's a pic of him and his carry.

ColbyBruce · Jan 29, 2023

This is an Andrews Carjacker holster. It was fairly comfortable to wear seated in a SUV or truck, not so much in a car, like my wife’s Camry. Perhaps it would have been had I lost twenty pounds, but I wasn’t curious enough to wait for those results and sold it.

BAM-BAM · Jan 29, 2023

rednichols said:
Then it will surprise you to learn that Ian Fleming, the Bond author, changed Bond's holster to a Berns-Martin IWB from the Berns-Martin shoulder holster, in the next book after Dr. No that was Goldfinger (the films are not in the books' order); because of the flack he got after the film version of Dr. No. In the Dr. No book the Berns-Martin was paired with the Centennial revolver as recommended by Boothroyd but he also paired the holster with the PPK because, he told Boothroyd, he wanted Bond to have a silenced pistol but the Centennial, he knew from his time at Naval Intelligence, couldn't be.

Bond, despite being a fictional character, is a superb example of how an underarm shoulder holster of any configuration is only ideal for small, light pistols like his PPK and his fictional Beretta (Fleming hadn't even known what it was called when he wrote the first draft of Casino Royale; his exemplar was his father's FN .25 of WW1 which Fleming carried through WW2).

In the Playboy interview of '64 Fleming was quizzed on why he hadn't switched Bond to Chic Gaylord's horizontal shoulder holster, a concept that Gaylord had invented for NASA and the returning astronauts to protect them from kidnaping by the Russians after splashdown. Fleming was incensed and the interviewer dropped the subject. And to a point he was right: it was all fiction no matter what pistols were involved.

The posterboy of why we don't try to carry big revolvers under the arm, this one being a Clark shoulder holster on an LAPD detective in the 1930s. I think the image has been 'flopped'; that is, the detective is not left handed:

Trying to recall will the Berns-Martin triple draw even work with a PPK ?... like you stated IIRC it was for small revolvers.

My Dad had a vertical, open front, shoulder holster that retained the revolver (4" M&P) with a spring the wrapped around the cylinder. I had it for a while back in the 70s until the elastic strap stretched out . Don't remember the brand.

326MOD10 · Jan 29, 2023

For a shoulder holster would a Ken Null SMZ work?

Wouldn't get much smaller in printing.

PPK/S OWB And Shoulder Rig Considerations?

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