Considering Double Action/Single Action vs. Double Action Only

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lever4ever

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I am currently working on replacing some older S&W guns that I sold when my son attended a prep school (guns are a good investment). I will be picking up a 1969 model 17-3 soon. The condition is approximately 99% with an excellent action. The price is 350.00. I am also looking to pick up a defensive pistol in an auto. I will probably stick to a .40 cal. since I shoot well with that caliber and have about 1000 rounds of it on hand.

The dilemma I'm presently facing though is I'm used to DA/SA having shot Sigs. I would like to have something lightweight and have considered the S&W M&P polymer framed auto; however, I wonder about the feel of the DAO only trigger pull. I also like pistols with exposed hammers. I would like to buy an American made Smith&Wesson. Does anyone have any advice and or suggestions. I would greatly appreciate your input.

Thanks,
Lever4Ever
 
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I'm becoming even more set in my ways the older I get... never really cared for the polymer frames. A traditional 1911 45ACP is really hard to top. For home defense though the Remington 870 in 12 gauge is my first choice. Just my never to be humble opinion.
 
Howdy Lever4Ever and welcome to the forum.
Do not mistake the striker fired pistols for DAO in the traditional sense. There is a big difference in the triger pull. My Seecamp (semi-auto) and my j-frame centennial revolver have DAO actions. They both have a long heavy triggerpull. My XD is striker fired, and has a completely different trigger pull that is much lighter and smoother. I do not have an M&P, so I cannot comment on that. I would assume that it is as nice of a trigger as my XD.

I know that you stated that you want a gun from an American company, but Para-Ordnace now has guns made in a USA plant (Para-USA) They make what is called the LDA (light double action) trigger system. Again I have no personal experience with it , but hear that they are indeed very light.

If you want a hammer involved, you will have to go with the LDA, or a traditional SA/DA gun. The true DAO semi autos will have a longer heavier trigger pull and you will not be able to pull the hammer into a single action position. It will not stay, and it is dangerous to try it.

There is always the good ol' 1911! Single action all the time! Sweet!

Hope this helped.


WG840
 
As a LE firearms instructor I have never liked any double action semi auto pistol. The key to accurate handgun shooting is consistant trigger pull. I would rather have a crappy double action only trigger that is at least the same every shot. The traditional double action semi auto with two crappy trigger pulls is too hard to master for most folks with it's double action first round then do the transition from double to single, drop the hammer, and do it all again.

I would agree with Evil Dog that a 1911 style single action would be hard to beat, but the popularity of striker fired handguns in law enforcement is due mainly to the trigger consistency, not necessarily the polymer frames (though if you were to carry a 20+ pound duty rig 10-12 hours a day you would appreciate the weight savings of a polymer framed handgun). For typical concealed carry or home defense, handgun weight may not be so much of an issue.

My choice for a quality decent sized, lightweight, reliable .40 S&W would be a Glock 23, Springfield XD-40, or S&W M&P in that order. If you want to start putting conditions on the weapon like made in America and with a hammer you might want to look at a Ruger.
 
Considering DA/SA vs. DAO

Thanks for the suggestions. I have heard many good things about the XD's; however, they are not Mass compliant. I may consider the S&W .45. I live near the factory and have even seen good quality used pistols at the gun shops. The amount of left over .40 S&W I have on hand still weighs in as a factor in narrowing down my choices.

Lever4Ever
 
I am principally a DA revolver shooter, and likely to stay one. I also cut my teeth on the 1911 long ago and do well with it. At one time I had flings with the SIG 220 DA/SA ang the Glock 17, both of which were approved by my agency--although I got them after retirement. I worked with the SIG for a while, with indifferent results--even had SIG do an 'action job' and converted it to DAO. Never could shoot it very well, mostly because of ergonomics and what was in reality a mediocre trigger in any DA mode. Same with the Glock no matter what I did--I really grew to hate that gun...

Upshot was that I gave the SIG to a friend who did shoot them well, and traded the Glock for two DA revolvers.

I did shoot a loaner S&W 4586 pretty well one time but that was the exception.

All I know is that they don't work for me.
 
If you are used to revolvers, the exposed hammer P2000 V2 with LEM trigger will be an easy transition...22 ounces and 14 rounds in a pretty compact package...the LEM is similar to DAO but the trigger recocks after each shot to make it a very smooth light pull....HK also has plants in America...so you are buying American, somewhat..:)

P1050048.jpg
 
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I myself prefer DA's, I have a S&W M&P in .45 ACP and I really like it. Good consistant trigger pull and it's an accurate gun. I shot it well right out of the box.
 
I have used the Para LDA extensively as a duty weapon (7.45; takes 1911 mags!) and off-duty weapon (6.45 Carry). I love it. It has a light, consistent double-action trigger pull. However, it is not a 'true' double action, as there is no second-strike possible with another trigger pull. It requires the slide cycling to partially cock the lockwork. The double-action trigger simply finishes the cocking and then fires the gun. So, I guess it's kind of like a striker-fired pistol with an external hammer! But, I like mine, and would recommend it for consideration.

Where I used to work, we carried the Model 57 when I started. (Oh, how I miss that big gun!) We were expressly prohibited from cocking the hammer- you know, the whole ND thing. Then, we went to the Beretta 92FS: a gun that cocks itself 15 times in a row! So, I've never quite warmed up to the DA/SA semi-auto. I like DA revolver, and also DA semis. Just my thought.
 
lever4ever said:
...The dilemma I'm presently facing though is I'm used to DA/SA having shot Sigs. I would like to have something lightweight and have considered the S&W M&P polymer framed auto; however, I wonder about the feel of the DAO only trigger pull. I also like pistols with exposed hammers. I would like to buy an American made Smith&Wesson. Does anyone have any advice and or suggestions. I would greatly appreciate your input...
Click to expand...

I own several striker fired guns (Kahr PM9 and XD45) that by definition are DAO, and obviously they don't have exposed hammers. Between these two the Kahr PM9 has the better trigger. It's consistent, smooth, and very predictable. That's the good news. The other news is that after owning these two guns for several years now I have to say that I'm really not that fond of striker fired handguns. It's a personal preference thing for me.

I also own an HK P2000 V3 and a Beretta 92FS that are SA/DA. As semi-autos go these two are my favorites although in both cases it took a couple of thousand rounds to smooth up their triggers (I'm not big into dry firing). I do like the exposed hammer and the decocking function.

For the same reason I love my revolver collection. Although all of my revolvers have exposed hammers I typically shoot them DAO. This does a couple of things for me. First, I've become a better shot with my revolvers by shooting them DAO. Seems strange because I was raised shooting SAO Ruger Blackhawks. And, second I've become a better shot with my HK and Beretta. The concentration it takes to shoot a revolver DAO has spilled over into my SA/DA pistol shooting.

So my first shooting preference is an exposed hammer revolver. After that I prefer the SA/DA exposed hammer semi-autos. And lastly I'd pick a striker fired semi-auto ~ smooth trigger but they don't make me feel comfortable.
 
Unless you really need a lighter gun, why not just buy another SIG, used if necessary? They work well, and you liked them before. Has something changed? With their aluminum receivers, SIGS are not exactly heavy.
 
I don't like DA only, striker fired, or any variation thereof in semi-autos. However, I have no problem with DA only in pocketable revolvers. Yep, it is inconsistent.
 
Wheelgunner840 said:
Howdy Lever4Ever and welcome to the forum.
Do not mistake the striker fired pistols for DAO in the traditional sense. There is a big difference in the triger pull.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. I hate actual double action in a semi-auto. I've never seen one I could stand. On the other hand, I like the Glock trigger, at least when properly cleaned up.

I understand that the S&W M&P can benefit from the same "$0.25 trigger job" that Glocks do.
 
DA/SA vs. DAO

Hi CMort666,

I have considered the M&P .40. However, the trigger pull is a bit on the heavy side. Tell me about this trigger job. Does it require a gunsmith or can the average gunner handle it? You have peaked my interest concerning this striker fired gun.

Lever4Ever
 
I recently handled a Ruger P345. My first thought was how good the grip felt in my hand. It also has a decocker. The sights appeared to be decent. The trigger pull was on the heavy side during the double action mode with a reasonably smooth and considerably lighter single action trigger pull. This trigger pull was assessed by dry firing. I have never fired this particular firearm. Handling this firearm has be leaning strongly toward the Ruger P345. That grip made the gun feel like it was a part of my hand; very natural. Anyone with experience and knowledge of the P345?

Leverl4Ever
 
I have never liked the DA/SA trigger and the need to remember to decock after firing. I was a DA revolver man for a good many years in LE. I have found that the plastic pistols such as the Glock, M&P, Kahr and XD triggers to be very much like operating the DA revolver. They are simple and reliable and if one gets damaged or taken as evidence, I can easily replace it. For day to day, concealed carry I find the Glock 27 I have to be very practical. I have a M&P that I also like and would like to get a M&P .45 Compact soon. After having "seen the elephant" a few times, I like simple and reliable. The compact plastic pistol is reliable, durable, easily maintained and easy to learn and operate under stress. The 1911 is an excellent pistol but when you get to the 3", lightweight versions I am not that positive about them. An exposed hammer and the slot in the frame for it is just another place for dirt, dust and lint to get into.
 
Personally, I like the DA/SA set up. I've never had a problem with the transition from the first shot to the second, and I decock without thinking about it. I've been carrying the same Sig for almost 19 years now without a problem (knock on wood). The DA only guns seem kind of dumbed down.

I started with a revolver in the days when we were taught "prepping the trigger" - actually starting your DA pull as you came on target. This is the kind of thing that causes the "booger hook/bang switch" crowd to whip out little fans and flutter them in front their faces while muttering "well, I nevuh........", but believe me, it happened. Since fairly regularly I am called upon to take bad people at gunpoint I like a little margin for error in my trigger pull.

Anyway, if you're used to the DA/SA setup maybe you should just stick to it.
 
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