" ....what's that little lever for on my M1 Carbine??"

A guy brought his deceased fathers M1 Carbine to the Rochester (NY) gunshow to sell Saturday..(there's that 'what will your kids do with your guns when you die' question again).

Anyway,,he got it in and tie wrapped at the door and was walking around with it looking for a buyer when someone pointed out the fact that it was an M2 full auto version,,not an M1.

The owner/seller had no idea what the difference was. Security was called and eventually the local County Mounties and the gun was confiscated.
Of course it will never be returned and will instead live in the local PD armory, or go to the chopping block.

Must have been an interesting conversation with the wife when he got home. "Got rid of the war gun like you wanted,,didn't get anything for it though"


A very well attended show, especially on Saturday. I thought I heard that they had the highest one day attendance ever on Sat.
Didn't buy any Smiths though a 39-2 looked pretty good at $350. I've sold my 3 and don't need any more. Can't pull the slides back anymore anyway. Some high priced 1917's as usual. Nothing spotted that really would kick in alot of interest as far as collectable pre war stuff. A few early M&P's but that was about it. Maybe I just missed all the really good stuff!
Sold some stuff, bought some small items,saw some friends,,,,had a good time. That's what counts.

I think my ears started to bleed from hearing all the 'I hate ObamaCare' conversations though. Time to go home then.

What a shame! I have to wonder if there is any chance it was registered during the '68 amnesty!

2152hq said:

A guy brought his deceased fathers M1 Carbine to the Rochester (NY) gunshow to sell Saturday..(there's that 'what will your kids do with your guns when you die' question again).

Anyway,,he got it in and tie wrapped at the door and was walking around with it looking for a buyer when someone pointed out the fact that it was an M2 full auto version,,not an M1.

The owner/seller had no idea what the difference was. Security was called and eventually the local County Mounties and the gun was confiscated.
Of course it will never be returned and will instead live in the local PD armory, or go to the chopping block.

Must have been an interesting conversation with the wife when he got home. "Got rid of the war gun like you wanted,,didn't get anything for it though"


A very well attended show, especially on Saturday. I thought I heard that they had the highest one day attendance ever on Sat.
Didn't buy any Smiths though a 39-2 looked pretty good at $350. I've sold my 3 and don't need any more. Can't pull the slides back anymore anyway. Some high priced 1917's as usual. Nothing spotted that really would kick in alot of interest as far as collectable pre war stuff. A few early M&P's but that was about it. Maybe I just missed all the really good stuff!
Sold some stuff, bought some small items,saw some friends,,,,had a good time. That's what counts.

I think my ears started to bleed from hearing all the 'I hate ObamaCare' conversations though. Time to go home then.

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How do they know it wasn't registered? If it was, the descendants can register it through transfer- if a full auto was able to be bought/registered in NY in the past. I believe that I read that autos are prohibited in NY, I just don't know if it was always this way since 1934.

Had a friend of a friend tell me that something like this happened at a show down here once. Someone took the feller with the auto aside and told him the seriousness of what he was doing and that he should check his father's paperwork or call the BATF immediately if paperwork could not be found. No need to make a big fuss about it- just inform the feller and step the heck back. I guess NY is a different world that the south.

If it wasn't registered (ever), let's just hope his ignorance doesn't get him into big trouble, if in fact he was that uneducated on laws and arms.

Sounds like a New York thing. My cousin here in NJ came home with a very WWII M1903 Remington. He went to a gun show in Pa, saw the seller walking around with it, they agreed on a price. I asked him about the paperwork, he said several Franklins, a Grant, a couple of Jacksons.
Granted that it's not a full auto,but there is a different attitude in Pa.

BLACKHAWKNJ said:

Sounds like a New York thing.

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C'mon now...give New York a break here...the guy was walking around a gun show with a machine gun and didn't even realize it.

Please tell me where in this country that is the accepted norm.

Damn sure that wouldn't fly in New Jersey!!!!!

G-Mac said:

C'mon now...give New York a break here...the guy was walking around a gun show with a machine gun and didn't even realize it.

Please tell me where in this country that is the accepted norm.

Damn sure that wouldn't fly in New Jersey!!!!!

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In Idaho whoever recognized it as am M2 would have bought it and taken it home.

G-Mac said:

C'mon now...give New York a break here...the guy was walking around a gun show with a machine gun and didn't even realize it.

Please tell me where in this country that is the accepted norm.

Damn sure that wouldn't fly in New Jersey!!!!!

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Texas. Maybe even Louisiana or Arkansas.

Of course it will never be returned and will instead live in the local PD armory, or go to the chopping block.

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No it can't.

Full autos have to be transferred to PDs, just as if to regular folks. It is just as illegal for this M2 to reside in the local PD armory as if the owner kept it.

Further, the ONLY component that the owner must surrender is the receiver. And it must be surrendered to the BATFE. He can keep ALL of the rest of the parts, even the select-fire parts, as long as he doesn't own another M1 Carbine. If he buys an M1 Carbine or a receiver for his parts, then he has to get rid of SOME of the FA parts, ONLY those that are unique to the M2 and are not found on an M1.

Too bad there's no way to get the word to him. The BATFE is pretty accommodating on situations like this, they would give him a reasonable amount of time to have a gunsmith strip the receiver, and then the owner surrender the receiver and the M2-only parts.

Noah

Noah Zark said:

No it can't.

Full autos have to be transferred to PDs, just as if to regular folks. It is just as illegal for this M2 to reside in the local PD armory as if the owner kept it.

Further, the ONLY component that the owner must surrender is the receiver. And it must be surrendered to the BATFE. He can keep ALL of the rest of the parts, even the select-fire parts, as long as he doesn't own another M1 Carbine. If he buys an M1 Carbine or a receiver for his parts, then he has to get rid of SOME of the FA parts, ONLY those that are unique to the M2 and are not found on an M1.

Too bad there's no way to get the word to him. The BATFE is pretty accommodating on situations like this, they would give him a reasonable amount of time to have a gunsmith strip the receiver, and then the owner surrender the receiver and the M2-only parts.

Noah

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So, does all this happen before or after he gets arrested for having an illegal machine gun?

Remember now...we're talking Rochester, New York. People get prison time in this State for having a handgun without a permit...somehow, I'm thinking an illegal machine gun might be a greater infraction than a non-registered handgun.

Noah Zark said:

No it can't.

Full autos have to be transferred to PDs, just as if to regular folks. It is just as illegal for this M2 to reside in the local PD armory as if the owner kept it.

Further, the ONLY component that the owner must surrender is the receiver. And it must be surrendered to the BATFE. He can keep ALL of the rest of the parts, even the select-fire parts, as long as he doesn't own another M1 Carbine. If he buys an M1 Carbine or a receiver for his parts, then he has to get rid of SOME of the FA parts, ONLY those that are unique to the M2 and are not found on an M1.

Too bad there's no way to get the word to him. The BATFE is pretty accommodating on situations like this, they would give him a reasonable amount of time to have a gunsmith strip the receiver, and then the owner surrender the receiver and the M2-only parts.

Noah

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Too bad someone with some carbine knowledge didn't get to him first. It's a better than even chance this was a M2 conversion of a M1 receiver. If it was indeed unregistered, the M2-only parts could have been removed to convert it back to a legal M1 in a matter of minutes.

If it had been registered, all bets are off, once a machine gun always a machine gun, but then it could have been trasferred.

Wonder who turned the poor guy in.

G-Mac said:

So, does all this happen before or after he gets arrested for having an illegal machine gun?

Remember now...we're talking Rochester, New York. People get prison time in this State for having a handgun without a permit...somehow, I'm thinking an illegal machine gun might be a greater infraction than a non-registered handgun.

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BATFE treats people differently when they call up or walk in and say, "Hey, look what I found," as opposed to a "militia" member that's manufacturing unregistered Sten SMGs out of exhaust pipe stock.

Noah

Noah Zark said:

BATFE treats people differently when they call up or walk in and say, "Hey, look what I found," as opposed to a "militia" member that's manufacturing unregistered Sten SMGs out of exhaust pipe stock.

Noah

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Noah,

Not being argumentative, but the guy didn't call the BATFE and say "Hey, look what I found".

If what we're reading here is true, he was walking around a gun show, looking to sell it.

Not quite the same thing.

It will be interesting to see what actually happens to this guy and if he's charged with anything.

G-Mac said:

Noah,

Not being argumentative, but the guy didn't call the BATFE and say "Hey, look what I found".

If what we're reading here is true, he was walking around a gun show, looking to sell it.

Not quite the same thing.

It will be interesting to see what actually happens to this guy and if he's charged with anything.

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Good point. He'll probably get the chair. After all, it is NYS.

Noah

He said his father 'brought it home with him from the Army'. The seller said he didn't know anything much about it other than it was an M1 carbine,,or so he thought. He simply brought it there to sell it.

There is no private ownership of full auto allowed in NY. No SBR or SBS either.

There was a BATFE rep (several) there with a booth set up but they never got involved. All handled by the Sheriffs Office. BATF will get notified anyway as SOP and the guy will probably get a home visit to see if perhaps anything else interesting is there.

Walking around with an unregistered full auto in NY will not get a friendly nod and wink from the L/E telling you to go ahead and strip the legal parts off and drop off the receiver after work sometime.

The guy was not charged and the whole thing was handled very quietly and professionally by both the show security (off duty RPD and Monroe County S/O) and the responding MCSO Deputy.

He lost his carbine, at least for now, but there was no way he was going to be allowed to walk out of that place with it once the knowledge of his possession was known to L/E. I don't think it would be much different anywhere else.

I'm sure that after they inspect the weapon and if it's it's possible he can get everything but the F/A parts back, that's what will happen. I wouldn't expect any on-the-spot determination to be done by local L/E anyway. The BATF will want to do their inspection before it goes any further.
Perhaps it's in NCIC as a stolen firearm being 'brought home from the Army',,who knows at this point.


I thought confiscated full autos could be retained by the agencys with proper forms filed through BATF.

Form 10...Application for Registration of Firearms Acquired by Certain Gov't Entities.
The BATF can deny the request of course, but if the request is for such uses as training purposes, special weapons units, etc and the weapon fits the need, they usually grant permission.

They can never be sold of course into the private sector of course.

Andy Griffith said:

No need to make a big fuss about it- just inform the feller and step the heck back. I guess NY is a different world that the south.

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Do you reckon?

SWID said:

In Idaho whoever recognized it as am M2 would have bought it and taken it home.

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Faulkner said:

Texas. Maybe even Louisiana or Arkansas.

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Faulkner said:

Wonder who turned the poor guy in.

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Somebody ratted him out, didn't they?


I wonder how high the bidding on that piece would get at a show in say, Perry, GA.

People down here are not scofflaws. Most of us do not, and would not keep an illegal firearm, nor convert a legal one to illegal full auto, or saw a shotgun barrel too short. However, if we see someone else with something that is technically illegal, unless that person is a known or potential violent criminal, we don't feel it is our duty to report said person to the authorities. In other words, if old Jim Bob saws his old single-shot H&R 12 gauge to 14 inches because it fits behind his soybean combine seat better that way, and is easier to access when he needs to shoot an armadiller or other varmint, it ain't none of my business.

2152hq said:

There is no private ownership of full auto allowed in NY. No SBR or SBS either.

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Just curious, but...
Has that always been the case since or before the GCA of 1934, or was state law changed after 1934 and those already in the state "kosher" and perhaps passed down to the heirs of the owner

My first Father-In-Law had a M1/M2 Carbine that he received from the DCM in the 60's. The receiver was marked M2 but the selector had been removed. Serial number on the paperwork matched and everything. When I pointed out to him that it was actually a M2 and not an M1 he just shrugged and said: I noticed that when I received it, but what did I care? I was a Captain in the Army and already had an issued NM M14 at home because I was shooting on the Precision Rifle Team.

He's been dead for almost 25 years and obviously I lost contact after my ex and I split up. But I wonder how many other modified M2's were distributed by the DCM in that era that are still floating around.

It has been almost 60 years since I carried an M2 with the TxNG but I bet I could still have converted that gun to a legal M1 in 30 seconds or less for that man.

Bob

Andy Griffith said:

Just curious, but...
Has that always been the case since or before the GCA of 1934, or was state law changed after 1934 and those already in the state "kosher" and perhaps passed down to the heirs of the owner

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The State has just never allowed any ownership AFAIK.
I really can't ever remember anyone haveing any F/A legally,, or talking of a time when it was legal.
If there was a 'Good Old Days' for F/A in this State,,I haven't ever heard of it and I've lived here for most all of my 60+ years.

If there was legal ownership of F/A before the NFA '33(?), there certainly was no 'grandfathering' of any ownership of those in possession at that point to keep theirs or pass them on to any heirs. It just doesn't exist here.
Registered DEWAT is allowed. I've seen registered AOW on occasion and even that causes a problem in that there is so little knowledge about the laws & rules amoung L/E, the public and FFLs.


In a State that has had handgun registration for citizens since 1911 and does not allow them to possess sparklers or sell strike-any-where matches,,it's a sure bet that F/A isn't coming anytime soon!

One of my DCM carbines has an M2 receiver. The rest is a "mix master" of parts, as is typical of arsenal rebuilds. No selector or other M2-specific parts. Still, I keep a copy of the DCM record of sale with the carbine just in case.