Is it just me, or is shooting hard, breakable targets at an outdoor range a bad idea?

The last time I went shooting, I asked a group shooting next to me not to use large, stoneware coffee mugs as targets. Their targets (mugs) were only about 18 feet away from me, and I was concerned about shrapnel from shattered stoneware and/or ricocheting slugs.

The same group was shooting bowling trophies with .22s and birdshot, and this concerned me as well.

The gun club I belong to has several outdoor ranges. Range rules are currently unenforceable simply because the the club's BOD has "put on hold" any range rules, and have not got around to establishing range rules. I believe this is because the directors are elderly, and simply don't have the energy or desire to work up safety requirements.

Obviously, a new set of Board members needs to take charge, but I'm unable to get involved because of health and business problems (maybe next year.)

Anyway, am I being paranoid, or should I insist on targets like paper, balloons, or other soft materials?

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NRA Lifetime Member

I have a neighbor that was shooting handguns indoors a few weeks ago when a bullet ricocheted back and hit him in the right side above his hip. He needed stitches. Can't pinpoint who or if anyone did anything wrong, but the stitches are real and he is fortunate that the shrapnel didn't injure him worse.

You are not paranoid.

Like this?

YouTube - 50 Caliber Ricochet

At that distance (18ft) and the very hard ceramic targets,,there's a very good chance a 22 bullet or bird shot will ricochet. It's almost like shooting at rocks if the angle is right.
I don't think you're being overly cautious at all.

Even bystander-skeet shooters have been hit with bird shot richocheting off of an incoming skeet claybird on a shot.

If you shoot enough, you'll probably have at least a closecall or two with a ricochet over time, if not get hit by one. No need to purposely increase those chances if you can help it.

I got hit in the face twice with 38Spec W/Cs after they came back off the backstop in our indoor range during Bullseye shoots.
The steel plates were not rated for jacketed ammo but of course some people just had to use it during the off hours and it put tiny dimples in the surface that were just enough to turn a lead slug right around and send it back at you.
Thank God for good glasses on one occasion.
My head stopped the other and being a Dutchman it really flattened out the slug for good.

BarbC, that 50cal ricochet video is crazy. I saw it awhile back and am amazed everytime I see it, that the guy was not seriously injured. As for the people shooting stoneware mugs, I think it was best to approach them, as it is concern for serious injury. One thing that has concerned me in some videos are falling plate shoots which seem to be done at very close ranges.

Back in the late 70's when lots of places were setting up Metallic Silhouette ranges, they would use old Railroad rails for the target bases. (Round top buried and flat base up). Low hits would follow the contour of the rail (curved) and there were several cases of rounds coming back to the shooters. Rounds out of a 30 Heritt or 7mm IHMSA were pretty potent. Anyone who has ever shot or officiated at a steel plate match will tell you to wear heavy jeans, and long sleeve shirt and good glasses.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Once, while acting as R.O. during an IDPA match I caught a small shard of lead in my tongue. It imbedded itself sideways....like a tiny Ninja star. Bled like crazy when I pulled it out. Another time I took a full bullet to the upper lip. It hurt as if I got sucker-punched. If I had been smiling, i'm positive i would have lost one or more teeth.

I cringe when I see people shooting with only prescription glasses w/no sideshield protection. (Actually, i believe they're in more danger when someone else is shooting and they're paying attention to things other than the actual shooter)

Only time I've ever *shot myself* was when we decided to dispose of an old TV with handguns. We all really thought the picture tube would explode in fine fashion.
I shot it with a K-22 at about 10 yards and the bullet hit me in the knee. It really stung, but didn't break the skin. It also didn't even scratch the picture tube... Next up was a model 29 - Blew a hole right through the thing - No explosion.

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In dog years I'm dead.

all my local ranges have a "paper target" only policy.

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UNDER THE CONE OF SILENCE

It's not only safer, but letting people shoot junk will turn your range into a junk yard.

As a not so bright teen, I was shooting at a dump with 12 ga bird shoot. Shot at a sink and got a couple welts on my face. I doubt I had glasses on and could have easily caught one in the eye.

If I stay with this club, I'm going to push for this.
Another member was shooting .44s at steel targets, it was like getting stung with bees. His response: "Well, if you use eye protection, you should be okay."

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NRA Lifetime Member

I have a lead sliver in my face from shooting steel with surface imperfections at an IPSC match. I have been hit with birdshot while ROing a three gun match where the targets were bowling pins. My short term solution was to stand behind the shooter. Long term is that I'm not ROing there again. I also saw a 3" welt on the chest of another RO at a well known three gun match I was working. The stage he was at required that slugs be fired at a steel plate. He was hit when the slug bounced back. He was lucky he didn't get killed or maimed. The match director withdrew that stage after that happened. IPSC forbids the use of slugs on steel and has a distance requirement for shooting steel with pistols or bird shot.

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I like Ike.

The same thing has happened to me at my indoor range, except that both times it hit me in the right leg. No major damage to me, but it was a bit of a surprise. The backstop is 60' from the benches. So, yes, I might be really careful around people shooting hard targets at close range.

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Insert short witty words here

Visit an indoor range and look at the ceiling. Those rounds came from somewhere.

I worked a case two years ago and still have the photos of the guy. He was standing behind the shooting line watching shooters and was hit right between the eyes with a .44 mag round that ricocheted off the bullet trap. He was carried off by ambulance and was lucky.

A round can bounce off many things. Best to use paper targets.

A buddy of mine is on the SCSD SWAT team and was at the SD range doing some tacticool shooting with a Glock 22. Slug hit the metal target and came straight back at him ripping the nail off of his shooting hand and then creasing his right temple. He said the thumb hurt worse than the three stiches he had in his head. I was at one of the local ranges I frequent and had a 38 SUPER slug come back at me. The only reason I know it was my slug was that I was the only person on the range shooting and one of the range SO was walking down the hall that is seperated from the range by BR glass and heard it hit the glass. So YES, shooting at hard targets at close range can have consequences.

Class III

Aloha,

Bowling pins also have a nasty habit of shooting back.

Don't ask me how I know.

Has anyone shot frozen jugs before? I have some creamer bottles that I was thinking of taking out to shoot similar to bowling pins. I figured they would be a lot less likely for ricochet, opposed to wood or steel.

I used to shoot at a high tech indoor sheriffs range where they had put a lip at the foot of the shooting positions. It was to stop bullets that skidded back along the floor from the back stop. I never saw it happen but the range master told me he had seen it on a number of occasions .

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I like Ike.

I started with cowboy action shooting and we shoot non-jacketed lead bullets at steel plates which are pretty close.

Everyone gets winged with shrapnel all day long. I got hit on the arm this past Sunday. Eye & ear protection is required for participants and spectators.

I might be able to one up you on that - I thought it would be a good idea to shoot a bowling BALL one time. I was on an indoor range all by my lonesome, shooting a 9mm Sig. I don't know exactly where that round landed, but it was close. The NATO hardball round only left a tiny smear on the 16 pound ball.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

At an indoor range, I had a 45 Cal, 255 gn lead cowboy bullet bounce off the the target clamp, hit the floor, slid across the floor and hit me in the big toe. When I looked down the bullet was spinning between my foot and the wall. I was fine but it surely opened my eyes. Wear protection when shooting or your just asking to get hurt. Personally I like outdoor shooting so I do not frequent indoor ranges. I grew up shooting into things such as large logs, clay hills, wet news papers stacked 6 feet long, never any bouncing bullets.

BE SAFE and ALWAYS KNOW YOUR TARGET AND BEYOND. Think a little bit further, such as what the bullet is gonna do when it reaches it's destination.

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YouJustCantSeeMeLaughingIsAll

+2 on the bird shot/bowling pin scenario. Even at 25 yards, getting peppered was an issue. We do twice-yearly fun matches that feature 2x4 stake cutting with two person teams shooting head to head and against the clock, shot at 10 yards. No ricochet issues there and a lot of fun. We added pins to the mix of games and had no issues with pistols or rifles, but when shotguns were used, birdshot sent some back as far as 40 yards. It goes without saying that we stopped that immediately.
We don't shoot steel at our range due to concerns about ricochets, and an indoor range that I'm also a member of has also found that very light loaded .38 Bullseye loads have lead to bullets coming back, though they've never gone back to the 25 yard shooting line. They used a neoprene curtain to prevent bounce back from the steel trap, and these pooper loads actually bounce off the neoprene instead of penetrating it!

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NCY in the PR of NJ

I watched my brother in law shoot a gas propane cylinder with a 38 and bounce off the tank hit the shed and then hit him on the eye lid. Not a good thing! but he was not hurt! Never again!

Our range has a captive rubber pellet backstop, so as long as the backstop is kept up, ricochets are quite rare.

Once on a commercial range, I felt a sting in the back of my hand and discovered a jacket (.44 Magnum?) stuck in the back of my hand. One of the petals had entered my hand. I pulled the jacket out, washed my hand and put a bandage on.

I have an indoor .22LR range (my garage), I shoot at 10 Meters. Using a commercial .22 bullet trap the spitting was terrible. The targets looked like a couple of rounds of birdshot had hit from the rear after five rounds of SV. Fragments of lead continually hit your face and arms. This is with very soft lead bullets at low velocity.
I had to make my own bullet trap so that the bullets were stopped not deflected from a steel backstop.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I've been hit by two ricochets, a .22LR and a .38 Special.

The .22LR hit me in the leg just below the knee and folded me up like a cheap suit. It hurt far worse than the .38 which hit me on the forehead and actually drew a drop or two of blood.

The .38's had such a bad reputation for ricochets that the shooting range banned them from the bowling pins competition.

These were ricochets which came directly back at me. They have very little energy, as all their momentum has been lost and direction reversed. The ricochets which keep going in generally the same direction as they were headed in the first place are far, far more powerful.