.303 Brit = Good Deer Round?

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Duster340

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Hey Folks,

My wife and I are purchasing a parcel of land in Northern Wisconsin and will be deer hunting it next year. Being IL residents we are limited to shotguns, muzzleloaders and handguns during deer season. Since rifles can be used in WI I'm going through my rifles (all surplus guns, K98, Moisin, 2 Enfields and an SKS) to determine if one or two will make decent deer guns. The Mauser and Moisin are both powerful & accurate but long and heavy. I also do not want to tap either for a scope as they are still nice original shooters. The SKS may be suitable but not sure good hunting rounds are out there. Got it narrowed down to an old sporterized .303 No4 MK1. Short, Handy and light weight. Got it from my brother years ago and have yet to sight it in, though my wife claims Santa's bringing a 3x9 scope, rings etc ;) I'm thinking it'll do the trick (assuming it groups fairly well.) The land is dense pines and hardwood with realistic shooting range being less than 75 yards. Picked up a variety 180 SP Hunting loads (Rem, WW, Hordany etc) .

I'd sure welcome any first hand hunting experience any members may have with the .303 Brit and Enfield action for hunting applications.

Be well
 
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Growing up in the late 1950s/early 1960s, most of my friends and I bought surplus WWII rifles due to availability and cost. I had several friends who hunted with misc British Enfield .303s and took a lot of deer and other game with them. IMHO the .303 will work just fine for you with proper hunting bullets. Most of the guys just used the open military sights. Not many of us could afford scopes in those days. Good luck on your hunt.
 
There probably have been more elephants killed with a .303 than any other caliber. For 75 yards, I would not use a scope (but take along binoculars).
 
I was raised hunting in wisconsin but it was a long time ago. Galena is right. To start with darn near ANY CENTERFIRE made above a .22 lr will kill a deer and that too, but not legaly. When I hunted back then, many countys allowed shotgun only with slugs but you said northern wisconsin at that has always been rifle legal. Anything made to kill a man will also certainly do the job on a deer! One of my favorite rifles has come to be a 7X57 ruger 77. That is the smokeless powder cartridge that started it all 125 years ago and its still one of the best! I own rifles in 30-30, 270, 30-06, 308, 30-40, 357 and 44 mag. If I go deer hunting again my first choice still might be the old 7x57! There is uncountable cartridges out there and I bet the world could get by just fine both hunting and military with a total of about three!
Some of those cartridges were made to accommodate different type of actions of course.
 
Ummmmm......yea!!!! Great round. It's in the same league as 8 mm Mauser, 7.62x54 and 308.

303 and 7x57 are responsible for probably 50% of Elephant kills During the late 1800s and early 1900s

I own 3. A No4, a real No5 jungle carbine and an original SMLE

Enfields also have the fastest and smoothest bolt. With a little practice it can be shot as fast as a semi auto!


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
I'd sure welcome any first hand hunting experience any members may have with the .303 Brit and Enfield action for hunting applications.
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Sorry that I do not have hunting experience with the .303 British, but I do have a lot of target shooting & hand loading experience with them.

When I began my paper-killing career with my first military .303, I noticed right away that the first shot out of a cold clean barrel would strike point of aim, dead on. Subsequent shots would cluster an inch or so high and to the right of the initial hole. I thought I was doing something wrong, like changing my sight picture or flinching or something.

It turns out that these rifles have fairly slender barrels. As the barrel warms up, the point of impact changes. So my "fix" for this was to fire the first shot or two into the backstop (off target but safe) and then fire five or so shots "for record." That way, I could get reasonably consistent two to three inch 100 yard groups. (Not bad for someone with my not-so-great vision teamed up with iron sights.)

Of course, you will not be firing warm-up shots in a hunting situation. At the range, the way to shoot "hunting groups" is to let the barrel cool down between shots. This will give you a good idea of where your first shot will hit. Also fire some warm barrel groups. It would be nice to set up two targets, but some ranges do not allow this.

Most folks will tell you that the first shot is going to be the best shot you get anyway. You'll just have to be aware that a follow-up shot will strike the warm barrel point of aim.

One other word of caution: the No 5 Mk I tends to have a "wandering zero". I have one of these Jungle Carbines, and the 100 target looks more like a shotgun pattern than groups from a rifle. Since you have a sporterized No4 Mk I, this should not be an issue.

For ammunition, a few years back I bought some .303 British Light Magnums made by Federal. I bought these because they were a really good deal (clearance priced). I know Remington also makes hunting rounds as well. But as I said, the only thing I have "hunted" with these is that 10 ring at the center of the black.

I live in a shotgun-only region, but I dream of one day hunting in a rifle state and trying my luck with a scoped, sporterized No 4 I picked up a few years back for less than $100. The scope cost more than the rifle!
 
I've taken several whitetail deer with my .303 Lee Enfield No4 MKII. Remington makes some fine Core Lokt hunting rounds in .303 British.

26037313.jpg


You also note you have a SKS. I have a Russian SKS that I've also taken several deer with. The ballistics of the 7.62x39 are practically identical to the .30-30 Winchester (and the .30-30 has probably taken more deer in North America in the 20th century than any other round.) Commercial hunting ammo in 7.62x39 is readily available and usually much cheaper than .303 British.
 
303 British works just fine. 150 gr might be a better choice for deer. But 180 will work.
 
Jack Flash said:
Sorry that I do not have hunting experience with the .303 British, but I do have a lot of target shooting & hand loading experience with them.

When I began my paper-killing career with my first military .303, I noticed right away that the first shot out of a cold clean barrel would strike point of aim, dead on. Subsequent shots would cluster an inch or so high and to the right of the initial hole. I thought I was doing something wrong, like changing my sight picture or flinching or something.

It turns out that these rifles have fairly slender barrels. As the barrel warms up, the point of impact changes. So my "fix" for this was to fire the first shot or two into the backstop (off target but safe) and then fire five or so shots "for record." That way, I could get reasonably consistent two to three inch 100 yard groups. (Not bad for someone with my not-so-great vision teamed up with iron sights.)

Of course, you will not be firing warm-up shots in a hunting situation. At the range, the way to shoot "hunting groups" is to let the barrel cool down between shots. This will give you a good idea of where your first shot will hit. Also fire some warm barrel groups. It would be nice to set up two targets, but some ranges do not allow this.

Most folks will tell you that the first shot is going to be the best shot you get anyway. You'll just have to be aware that a follow-up shot will strike the warm barrel point of aim.

One other word of caution: the No 5 Mk I tends to have a "wandering zero". I have one of these Jungle Carbines, and the 100 target looks more like a shotgun pattern than groups from a rifle. Since you have a sporterized No4 Mk I, this should not be an issue.

For ammunition, a few years back I bought some .303 British Light Magnums made by Federal. I bought these because they were a really good deal (clearance priced). I know Remington also makes hunting rounds as well. But as I said, the only thing I have "hunted" with these is that 10 ring at the center of the black.

I live in a shotgun-only region, but I dream of one day hunting in a rifle state and trying my luck with a scoped, sporterized No 4 I picked up a few years back for less than $100. The scope cost more than the rifle!
Click to expand...

A properly bedded No.1 or No.4 in the original wood does not throw the first round. The way the wood fits on an Enfield is best described as arcane and it can have a drastic effect on the accuracy of the rifle. A sportered Enfield No.1 will have a fairly thin barrel and may suffer from the effect described by Jack Flash. The No.4 like yours was built with a heavier barrel so should be more resistant to "thin barrel" syndrome.

As for the No.5 (AKA Jungle Carbine) and its wandering zero, this seems to vary gun to gun. Some do it, others do not. I cannot say about mine because I know the bedding is off.:eek:

When it comes to ammo, be aware that an Enfield with significant throat erosion will not run well with boattail bullets. The good news is that most, if not all of the available hunting rounds use flat based pills.
 
Well, most of my experience is with the No 1 Mk III*. I have No 4s, but I just like shooting those No 1s the most. :D

We could speculate all day about "what might happen". I guess the point of my post was (or should have been) that Mr. Duster340 needs to spend some time at the range with his .303s to see if they have the "cold barrel" issue or not. Then he can proceed accordingly. Fair enough?

As for the No 5 wandering zero: I only have the one and it exhibits this problem. From doing a little research, I know that the problem was widespread enough with the JC that the English Army spent a lot of time and effort trying to find the root cause and then, a cure. My understanding is that they never did. This would lead me to believe it is not a simple bedding issue.

But if I gave the impression that this is a problem in every No 5, I regret that. From what I have read, some have the problem and some don't. Again, if somebody buys one, they will have to take it to the range to know how that individual No 5 performs. My point here was: don't buy one assuming you are getting a short handy rifle suitable for hunting deer. It may be, or it may not be.
 
Jack Flash said:
Well, most of my experience is with the No 1 Mk III*. I have No 4s, but I just like shooting those No 1s the most. :D

We could speculate all day about "what might happen". I guess the point of my post was (or should have been) that Mr. Duster340 needs to spend some time at the range with his .303s to see if they have the "cold barrel" issue or not. Then he can proceed accordingly. Fair enough?

As for the No 5 wandering zero: I only have the one and it exhibits this problem. From doing a little research, I know that the problem was widespread enough with the JC that the English Army spent a lot of time and effort trying to find the root cause and then, a cure. My understanding is that they never did. This would lead me to believe it is not a simple bedding issue.

But if I gave the impression that this is a problem in every No 5, I regret that. From what I have read, some have the problem and some don't. Again, if somebody buys one, they will have to take it to the range to know how that individual No 5 performs. My point here was: don't buy one assuming you are getting a short handy rifle suitable for hunting deer. It may be, or it may not be.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a full length No.1 without the wood certainly looks delicate and whippy. As for checking for consistency, you'll get no arguments from me. :cool: That other thread that is going right now where the guy with the boresighted rifle has missed 5 deer from inside 100 yards sure shows the need for checking things for real.

Call me a cynic, but some of the "issues" suffered by the No.5 might have had something to do with the fact it was still a bolt action and not a semi-auto like all the other boys in NATO were about to get. As we used to say in England while tapping our noses, "Know what I mean, Harry?" :D:D:D
 
BSA Lee Enfield #3 Pattern Carbine, .303 British - YouTube


Duster-

This is an original BSA-made .303 sporter made about the time of WW I or before. Many of these saw service in African hunting of antelopes ranging from duiker to eland. Elephants were killed with FMJ .303 bullets. Bell used one before he fell in love with his famed .275 Rigby.

This one was made on a Lee-Metford or Lee-Enfield carbine action, accounting for the flat bolt. The video maker doesn't know .303's too well, nor does the man speaking in the background. You could get them with normal rounded bolts, too. But the rifle he has is a wonderful item, and video quality is high. These guys are Canadians, eh?

I'm sure the Remington ammo mentioned is okay. I'd use either Norma or Winchester 180 grain loads, in hopes they'll shoot to your sights. Service ammo was 174 grains at a nominal 2440 FPS. (MK VII ball)

I was in Newfoundland for a time and some there bought SMLE sporters at Hudson's Bay and other stores. They were sporterized by Parker-Hale and looked much better than a typical Bubba job. My No. 4 MK II will stay in military mode. They kill moose in Canada with .303's. Whitetail deer at normal ranges are well within the capabilities of the .303 British. The ctg. is notably more potent than the .30-40 Krag, let alone the old .30-30.
 
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Thanks for the insight, suggestions and feedback folks. Much appreciated. I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of grouping I'll be able to obtain with the old .303. While I haven't considered the SKS a hunting rifle, I think I'll also find some hunting rounds for the it as well. Faulkner's point is a good one, if the 7.62x39 is close to the venerable old 30-30 ballistically, it outta get the job done as well. Guess we'll put them both through their paces and end up hunting with whichever rifle we hit best with.

Thanks again everyone
 
Used to hunt in pennsylvania up near tonowanda state park. Good weather took a ruger 77 in 308. Lousy weather always took the jungle carbine. Last couple years up there just the jungle carbine. That 180 grain round nosed softpoint will do the job. Frank
 
I tried to talk a guy out of a British Enfield No. 5 some years ago.
It turned out to be his through a "complicated family deal" so he
couldn't sell it even if he wanted to.
I thought it would make a good deer gun as it stood.

There was an article in the Gun Digest annual a while back about a
game and fish guy out west who used a No. 5 as a knock around, work
rifle. He had to shoot injured moose and such at times. He wrote that it worked fine in that role. Should work for WI whitetail too, I guess.

Jack Flash: Why don't you just hunt in the U.P. sometime. It's
all rifle zone up here.
 
I have never shot one nor even handled one, but the SKS looks like it would make a handy brush gun.

Definitely make sure that hunting ammunition will cycle through that semi-auto w/o jamming. For that matter, the same should be checked for the .303 bolt action. You don't want to hunt with a combination that is prone to feeding problems. A word of caution: it is considered unsafe to cycle live cartridges through a firearm inside a home. Be sure to do this type of testing at the range or similar setting where it is safe to do so. Be safe always.

Whatever hunting ammunition you pick for these two candidates, I would suggest carefully comparing the bullet weights, velocities, trajectories, energies delivered at 100 yards, etc. My hunch is that the .303 will edge out the SKS in every department.

It's probably pretty obvious I'm rooting for the .303, but I hope you choose whatever suits your needs and abilities best.
 
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