Hello
I have decided to go with a whole house generator. I bought it at Lowes. They wanted 1800.00 to install it
I am installing myself. It is a matter of running about 15 feet
of gas line across the basement and to the outside. It is a
basic installation.
What I am thinking of is how to get the gas to the generator from where it exists the house.
I have seen black pipe ran a couple of feet from the house to the generator. I have seen black pipe buried to the generator, but that is not good.
I have thought about running the flexible stainless steel pipe in a housing about 5 feet on the outside. Seems like that would be a good way to go.
Anybody here installed one or have one installed?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I had my Generac professionally installed by a vendor who sold me the whole thing, at a great price. I needed to file permits for and have inspections of, the electric, generator, and the gas line installs. They don't mess around, those inspectors.
Besides that, I've seen more than a few gas explosions in my lifetime, I'm not messin' with that.
My unit is propane, as no natural gas around here. I had the unit installed 50 ft from my house behind my shed, much quieter when running. So, I needed to have about 75 feet of electric line run to my house, buried in conduit, 18 inches down. The gas piping needed to be buried 3ft down, but it was only 10 feet from the generator. The electric and propane piping WITH a backhoe+ operator, cost me about $1500. Materials and all, 6 gauge wire, conduit, etc.

__________________
I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

Most existing residential gas piping systems are not adequately sized for the additional fuel volume required to run a generator; even a small 8 kW one will typically require around 100 kbtu/hour to run at full load. If you have natural gas you also need to find out if the meter out front, as well as your gas main to the meter, will handle the additional volume. What size generator are you installing, and is it natural gas or propane?

I think that if I'm gonna install a whole house generator, I'm gonna call my plumber and ask him to do it and then get an electrician to hook it up properly. Seen too many horror stories about bubba taking the gas generator and hooking it up to his meter pan to supply the whole houose and frying the entire grid in the home. And if you run it for a few days wait until you see your gas bill
Me-I'm old fashioned. I got a 5KW and a pot full of extension cords. If I see a storm that is about to hit-I go to Lowes and buy a 115V room AC for $99. If it misses or I don't use the ac-I take it back. I got a little bitty Ice box to keep the beer cold and If I need Ice I go stand in line with the rest of the poor folks

__________________
Forum consigliere

Thanks for the replies.
I am an electrical engineer and have installed many furnace applications over the years, guess I should have mentioned that. I am not going to blow up anything that doesn't need blowing up.
I am just trying to figure out the best way to get the gas line to the generator. It will only be a 15 foot run across the basement, and then out a couple of feet to the generator.
I am using propane, and I have an 1 1/2 gas line. That splits to a 1 inch line. and then the furnace is fed off of that. The only gas appliances will be the generator and the furnace, so the flow should be fine.
It is a 10000 watt generator. I need to run the furnace and a microwave and a few lights, so that should be fine. With the price of lp gas, I did not want too big of a unit.

The last outage, I was without electric for 5 days. All the gas stations could not pump gas. I do not want to go through that again.

I purchased a commercial grade (not the model sold in Home Depot) Generac Portable 10K Generator 3 years ago right after Hurricane Irene. Thankfully I had it just in time to run it for 10 days during hurricane Sandy. I was going to get a whole house Natural Gas automatically operated Generac and thankfully I did not because here on Long Island the devastation was so great that many areas had the Natural Gas shut off by the Utility because of fire and explosion concerns.

I have a conversion kit that allows me to run on Natural Gas, Propane or Gasoline with the flick of a valve. During the Hurricane outage I ran it for 10 days straight on Gasoline and it performed brilliantly. I start it every two or three weeks just to exercise the Generator and keep the Carb. from jelling up. I do use the Startron Enzyme to prevent that, but I still like to run it for a few minutes a few times a month. My home is just under 5000 square feet and it ran the entire house and all appliances - no problemo. Generac makes a great unit!

I would avoid the S.S. Flex pipe...way too expensive, suggest Black or galvanized pipe.. My F-I-L has a LP 12 KW Generiac. His is 15" from his house and all the gas lines and electric runs are in underground conduits. The Weed Eaters are murder on exposed soft or flexible lines. Ivan

Gasoline generators mean you need to store gasoline or spend time during an extended outage looking for more. Been there, done that.
The Generac I have now gives me the luxury of not even putting down my tv clicker, it comes on after 10 seconds of an outage.
Need propane? Call the distributor.
My gen runs every Thursday at 11am automatically for 10 minutes, it needs excercise.

__________________
I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

We had this professionally done about a year ago - there was a lot more to it than I thought - including permits and double inspections (inspectors inspecting the inspectors and signing off) - NG meter and valves had to be changed out/inspected. Insurance wise, I think it's very good to have it done right (no offense) with all the paperwork.

This 20 KW (18KW on our NG line) Generac will run our entire house pretty much (even AC which was wired into the generator to prevent overload). It was about $9K complete as you see including transfer switch etc.

__________________
Lou

They JUST showed a 20KW installation on PBS "This Old House" today.

It runs on natural gas.

I just finished watching it,

you ought to see if that episode is on the internet any place!

^A great investment.^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the replies.
Loutent - The pictures really help. I see that they ran the hard pipe to the flexible line hooked to the generator. That is what I need to do.
Since mine will be LP gas, I need to run the black pipe instead of the galvanized pipe.
Since mine is a smaller unit, my transfer switch will be inside the house.
I have the slab poured and am waiting for the unit to arrive.

As someone above stated, be careful where you put it.

We have a whole house generator (came with the house) that has been fantastic. The only thing is they placed it close to the house to make it easy for the electrical line and the gas line.

It just got done running four days straight due to the ice/snow we received. It's a small car engine that rev's pretty high right next to our master bedroom. Even after 10 years here it's still hard to sleep with that thing running

Lad

Well, if you're a REAL engineer than you certainly don't need to use the directions that came with it
Also do you wear that little striped had ( I have a dear friend who worked his way through Tulane Mechanical Engineering school without any help from anybody-working in the trades as he went. Took him 10 years but when he graduated I bought him an engineer hat and a slide ruler-by then you really had to hunt for a slide ruler!). Me-I couldn't get past the math so I went to plan B-switched my major and became a barrister. Always wished I could have gotten that undergrad degree in engineering though.....

__________________
Forum consigliere

OT, but interesting anyhow: years ago (I mean like 50 years) my Daddy had an old Red Seal Continental straight six industrial engine powering an irrigation pump. Unmuffled, of course. He had it on a creek, on our land, but within a few hundred yards of some dwelling houses. At first, the neighbors complained when he fired it up at midnight to run for three or four hours. I mean it had a throaty roar, too. About midway through the dry summer, one of the neighbors confided that he had reached the point where he couldn't sleep without the old Red Seal bellowing 200 yards from his open bedroom window.

__________________
Georgia On My Mind

Yes, they can be noisy. It will be on the other side of the house from the bedrooms, should be alright.

I probably can install it without the directions.

I am still hunting for my slide rule and striped hat.

My set is about like Loutent's but it's a 14 Kw, NG. A friend of mine with the requisite skills did a beautiful job of installing it. I gave him a nice CMP Garand ($165 in 1985 or so) and a police trade-in M&P for the work. Everyone went home happy...

Love it.

That's code in the places I'm familiar with. As I recall, the hard pipe needs to hold 30 PSI for 5 minutes while the inspector is there. At least that was LA county several years ago and the same in other places I've lived.

Then open the valve to the flex and let it "bugle" for a minute before connecting to the unit.

I'd adhere to local code, whatever that is in your area.


Sgt Lumpy

In my area you need hard pipe to the unit and an approved flexible connector between them,. It needs to be vibration rated as it will come apart otherwise. Buried pipe should be rated for burial and either wrapped, epoxy coated or approved plastic with manufactured transition fittings. I would not come from inside but along the walls from the point of entry the propane comes in at. Your pipe size for LP might be big enough but I doubt the house regulator is so I would want another just for the generator.
Lowes probably has a generic bid for installs that covers them regardless of distances.
Lines need to be buried 18" minimum depth and have at least 12" separation of elec and gas if you can use the same trench in your area. Install a locator wire and or underground marking tape in the trench. IIWM, I would pay a hs kid to dig it.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

Definitely check on your LOCAL building codes when planning your installation. These should spell out your options for the piping, shut-offs, wiring, and locations (Such as how far from any door or window.). Some municipalities won't let you do it yourself.

You'd think that there would be some uniformity across the country, but there isn't, especially if you're in certain cities. I had to plan for solar power electrical installations across the country, and some places have totally over-done requirements even for the simplest electric wiring. I suspect the local electrician's unions were in bed with the politicians. There certainly isn't any valid engineering or safety reason, but they'll fine you and make you tear it out if you don't follow their rules.

I know how you feel. 2009 we went a week no electric. I live
and work at a power plant 2.5 miles down the road.

I mentioned in a post above that our generator had been running for 4 days (actually 5) due to the recent ice storm.

Woke up this morning freezing....No heat from furnace....first thought was that furnace broke down as it's getting to that age. Great time for it...temps in the teens with wind chill around zero

Upon further inspection....no hot water....no dryer....no gas fireplace. So this means propane supply. Shouldn't be an issue: we are on automatic refill service. Refill should have been on Friday or Monday.

Generator running for all those days took lots more propane than I thought! Usually the tank is at 25% when it's refilled. With the cold weather and whole house generator running, it drained it to zero.

Life always reminds you to remember the basics

Lad

Life is good in Georgia. So far my biggest gas bill was $17. And that's a gas heating system, electric oven and electric stove

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson

I've got one of the Generac 20K whole house units on natural gas. It works great, we haven't had a power failure since I installed it.

14-20 KW For a whole house don't forget you need water . Like they said you need a bigger vol meter for generator start up & Gas Co will press ck sys & House for pressure loss then its not your fault

Check the codes. What is your plan for installing the cut over switch? The commercial side is hot, very hot. Are you going to put the switch between your main breaker and panel?

I too am an electrical engineer. I spent 42 years with the phone company, generators and maintenance was part of our daily bread.

There is some great advice above. Keeping generator fuel was a biggie for the phone co. LP may need filled more often before, during and after an outage. Yep this was a phone company rule.

I use the same plan as the non engineer CAJ. I have a Generac 5500 that can power the essentials at home and a 4K unit for the RV.

Check local codes.

ICBO? BOCA?? IBC?? IMC??

A permit and (normally) three inspections required where I live. Slab, plumbing, electrical.

I'd hate to see you have to tear it out because you got busted without a permit. And odds are the first time the meter reader comes by, your generator will be noticed.

Just sayin'...

I have the first residential whole house generator permitted/installed in my city. The Building Department had a ball for 11 months changing their minds about set-back distances, slab size/thickness, gas pipe size and load calculations. Even though I have a gas dryer and gas stove, the city required me to put in a 25,000 watt generator.
The automatic transfer switch (ATS) starts up the generator 45 seconds after power is lost and runs until it is back on and stable.
I have lived in my house for over 40 years and (knock on wood) have never lost natural gas service even during numerous hurricanes. My neighborhood has experienced power outages of up to 48 hours at least a dozen times since my generator was installed. It's kind of strange to have the only house running central air and a big screen TV in an otherwise pitch black 15 square block area.

Mark

Firstly, I'd rather have locally licensed/permitted trades - an electrician and a plumber - do the work rather than an EE - and my career included teaching technologies and pre-engineering courses for over twenty years.

Secondly, be careful about over-sizing your generator. It's simple - to produce 60Hz AC, a directly driven 2-pole alternator requires the engine to spin it at 3,600 RPM - and many 10-14 hp gas engines have a max speed of 3,800 RPM. Lightly or heavily loaded, they are running nearly wide open. Now convert to NG - the rejetted engine produces ~78% of the gasoline rating. That means 3,900 hp from a 5 kw generator. Also, gasoline blow by is expected to cool the exhaust valve in the air cooled engine - the more efficient burning NG doesn't leave blow-by vapor - expect premature exhaust valve wear - unless the engine was designed originally for NG, ie, not a converted gasoline engine.

A 4-pole alternator cuts the direct drive speed requirement in half to 1,800 RPM, offering better engine efficiency and life. Add the NG designed engine and you'll increase the generator set's price several times. Most residential 5-5.5kw generators in the $600-$1,000 range have no engine life warranty due to the near max speed they must run. They generally won't last for continuous running for days on end. Reduce that to several hours a week for a week or so should be realizable - and for a $600 gen set, that should seem okay.

I have underground utilities here in my new to me garden home. Not sure what the HOA says about gen sets, but I don't see any in my neighbors' yards.

Stainz

^^^^^^^that's why I hired a professional.

My generator was installed behind my shed and about 50 feet from my house. Cost more obviously for the extra labor and wiring, but when the unit runs I can't even hear it in my house.

Tech running plumbing to propane tanks.




Trench dug from the shed to the rear of my house, which will contain the electric feed to my transfer switch.

__________________
I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

Living in high mountain country, I have paid $0.00 since 1978 for AC, what's your point?

__________________
Front sight and squeeze